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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] oral Torah

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  • From: Brak <Brak AT neo.rr.com>
  • To: Peter Kirk <peter AT qaya.org>
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] oral Torah
  • Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:58:25 -0500


Peter Kirk wrote:

On 23/06/2006 21:11, Brak wrote:

...
So just because you have Jesus debate with other Pharisees doesn't mean that Jesus rejected the Oral Law, nor does it mean that Jesus wasn't a Pharisee Himself. ...


Indeed. But if you read the gospels, which are (as James pointed out) more or less the only records we have of the historical Jesus, we find that Jesus rarely debated with the Pharisees, but more frequently he simply condemned them - and vice versa. For example, see the repeated "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!" of Matthew 23. Note that he doesn't say "Pharisees of that other school", he addresses all Pharisees, and all teachers of the law. It is clear that he is not counting himself as one of them, but as an outsider challenging all of them. That doesn't mean that he disagreed with all of them on every point. But it does make it impossible to claim that Jesus was himself a Pharisee.


Its called intra-sect criticism, aka fighting amongst yourselves. I am a Seventh-day Adventist Christian. Many times I talk about Christians doing things that they shouldn't do, and even Seventh-day Adventist doing things that they shouldn't do. Since I criticized other Christians does that make me not a Christian? Since I criticized other Seventh-day Adventist does that make me not a Seventh-day Adventist?
Of course I am still both a Christian and a Seventh-day adventist even though I have criticized both. Hence Jesus can be a Pharisee and criticize them at the same time. So it is not an impossibility for Jesus to be a Pharisee, in fact when all the info is laid out it points to Him being one.

Earlier you mentioned verses 2-3 of the same chapter, where Jesus tells people to be careful to do everything that these same teachers of the law and Pharisees tell them to do; but in the light of what follows, that can only be understood as ironic!


Not really ironic, but rather a grave warning to those who teach/preach one thing, and then turn around and do the opposite. Jesus was criticizing that they weren't practicing what they preached. How they gave a good talk, but not a good walk. How they taught and instructed the people to faithfully observe the Law (both written and oral) but ignored to do it themselves.

I think, if you wish, we should continue this discussion of-board, as all this Jesus talk really has nothing to do with the forum - at least none that I can see.

But I am enjoying our discussion. So please do replay back to me. In fact we can CC all those interested in this current thread.


B"H
John Steven





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