Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>]

Hi Karl.

I didn't intend to go off list. I guess I just clicked "reply" without 
changing the address.

In any case, the first part of the verse is certainly NOT Aramaic: as for 
the second part, it's not either, although I think that the individual words 
could be, the syntax is not.

Yigal


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph AT email.com>
To: "Yigal Levin" <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Isaiah 14:4


> Yigal:
>
> I see you took this off list.
>
> That's not the question.
>
> The question is, are these words also simple Aramaic? And if so, do they 
> have the same meanings as simple Hebrew? If the answer is "yes" to both 
> the above, then is it possible that Isaiah intended a simple Aramaic 
> inclusion in his text, just as Jeremiah did?
>
> Yes I recognize that the man on the street did not know Aramaic, and I 
> suspect that there was little change from Isaiah's day to Jeremiah's. 
> That's why Jeremiah had only one sentence in Aramaic in his whole book. Is 
> it possible that Isaiah did the same?
>
> Karl W. Randolph.
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Yigal Levin" <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
> >
> > Karl,
> >
> > Unlike Jer. 10:11, which is totally Aramaic, Isaiah 14:4 is in
> > Hebrew. Besides the last word, there is no other word in the whole
> > verse which is not simple Hebrew. IF one is to understands
> > "madhebah" as being derived from Aramaic "dahab", it is either an
> > Aramaic loan-word in a Hebrew context, or an Aramaism, that is, use
> > of an Aramaic form to create a "Hebrew" word. I, for one, am not
> > convinced - "golden" does not really fit the context. I'd
> > understand "madhebah" as being derived for the Hebrew "YHB/RHB" -
> > "pride".
> >
> > Also, assuming that Isaiah 14:4 is original to the historical
> > Isaiah, he lived at a time when most Judahites (his audience) would
> > not have understood Aramaic (cf. Rab-shakeh). Jeremiah, a century
> > later, lived at a time in which Aramaic had become the common
> > language of the region, and any educated Judahite probably would
> > understand a phrase or two.
> >
> > Yigal
> >
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph AT email.com>
> > >>
> > >> > Dear B-Hebrew haburim:
> > >> >
> > >> > While reading through Isaiah 14, I question if the
> > >> > last five words in verse 4 are Aramaic? Do they
> > >> > make sense as Aramaic?
> > >> >
> > >> > The dictionaries I consulted carry only those
> > >> > Aramaic terms that are found in the recognized
> > >> > Aramaic sections of Tanakh. Four of the terms are
> > >> > not found in those sections. The last term is
> > >> > happax legomenon in Hebrew where neither the
> > >> > context nor a possible root are a clear help to
> > >> > decipher a possible meaning. However in Aramaic it
> > >> > looks as if it means "gilded".
> > >> >
> > >> > )YK same as Hebrew?
> > >> > $BT to take captive, to stop?
> > >> > NG# a harsh one? harsh actions?
> > >> > $BTH same as $BT above?
> > >> > MDHBH gilded one?
> > >> >
> > >> > Any thoughts?
> > >> >
> > >> > Karl W. Randolph.
>
> --
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