Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Steve Miller" <smille10 AT sbcglobal.net>]

From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net Sunday, November 27
@Steve:

> SM: Kelton, I do not follow your logic. You say that because Z`Q can take
an 
> indirect object preceded by EL, then the direct object of the hiphil form
of 
> Z`Q cannot be caused to do the action, in this case, Crying out for help. 

Response:  That is not quite what I meant.  Let me try to do it this way.

1.The verb Z'Q means to "call out."  
2. HALOT says when it is followed by an accusative it means to "call out to
someone."
3. This makes sense because when one calls/ addresses, they are
calling/addressing "someone else".   That is why this particular verb Z'Q is
normally followed by "EL."  Because EL is used in order to illustrate this.
i.e. "I called out to my mother"   Likewise here in Zech 6:8, he is being
addressed/called out too.

In Gen 20:13 you don't wonder someone else, you only call out to someone
else.  Does that make sense?  Because this verb is addressing someone.

Steve> So you say T`H is not a good example because it does not take an
indirect > object. Then, how about KRB, draw near? It can take an indirect
object 
> preceeded by EL. In the hiphil, cause to draw near, the direct object of
the 
> hiphil verb is the one that draws near. i.e. Exo 29:4 And you shall cause 
> Aaron and his sons to draw near to the door of the tabernacle .. 
> -Steve Miller, 
> Detroit 

Response: I understand your point, but it is a little different that what I
was discussing above.  Because KRB is not addressing someone like Z'Q is. By
the way what part of Detroit do you live? I live in Detroit as well.  Right
off of 6 mile.

Steve: Out of 60 QAL Z'Q uses, 7 (Jud 2:12; 2 Sam 19:4; 2 Chron. 32:20;
Esther 4:1; Jer. 20:8; Ezek. 11:13; Hab 1:2) take a direct object. In 5 out
of these 7, the direct object is the thing that was cried, i.e. a loud cry,
a great voice, violence. In the remaining 2, Jud 2:12 & 2 Chron. 32:20, the
direct object is the addressee. (Personally, I think in these 2 cases the
meaning is to summon for an emergency, but without authority as in the
Hiphil.) I don't see why these 2 occurances would make the Hiphil for Z`Q
totally different than the Hiphil for KRB, draw near. Both transfer their
action to an indirect object by use of the preposition el. Except that Z`Q
in 2 out of 60 cases does not use el.

Amazing! I live at 5 Mile & Middlebelt. My son attends and stays at
University of Detroit at 6 Mile & Livernois, so I go there rather often. 
-Steve