Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph AT email.com>]

Kelton:

This comes down to for end a dictionary is written. Most 
dictionaries are written to aid in translating, hence they 
will hold the translator's hand and suggest ways that make 
for the smoothest rendition in the target language. HALOT 
sounds like an excellent translator's dictionary.

I wrote my dictionary because I was looking for a tool 
to help me to get inside Biblical Hebrew, as much as 
possible to read Tanakh as an ancient Hebrew would 
have done. There is no attempt to help a translator. Let 
him use a thesaurus! There are ways of speaking that 
would be awkward, even impossible, to translate directly 
into English, but may work well in, let's say, Japanese. 
Discussions like this help me improve my dictionary and 
for this I thank you.

This verse is an example of the above. In Hebrew, it 
makes sense as a statement, but it is terribly awkward to 
translate into English. HALOT holds your hand and says 
to translate it as a rhetorical question. I admit that the 
verse comes out smoothly in English as a rhetorical 
question, but now we're talking English usage, not 
Hebrew.

HALOT's other example is more clearly not a KY 
introducing a question in Hebrew, but it may again be 
an easier way to translate into English. Again HALOT 
is helping with English, not Hebrew.

Almost all that I now know of Tanakh I have read in 
Hebrew, not in translation.

Thank you and Harold and others for this discussion.

Karl W. Randolph.

----- Original Message -----
From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
> @Karl:
> 
> > I thought mine is the best. ;-)
> Response: LOL, that is cool.
> 
> Karl:> And when David finished to speak these words to Saul
> > that Saul said, Is this your voice my son David? and Saul lifted 
> > his voice and wept. And he said unto David, You are more just 
> > than I, for you acted well towards me and I have acted badly 
> > towards you. And today you set before (reported) that good which 
> > you did with me, that which YHWH locked me up in your hands and 
> > you did not kill me. And when a man finds his enemy and sends him 
> > away on a good road that YHWH will make you full of goodness 
> > because of this day which you did to me. In verse 20, I read Saul 
> > as starting the sentence with a subordinate clause stating a 
> > principle, the reason that YHWH will bless David. As such this is 
> > not a question, at least not in Hebrew.
> Response:  I see what you are saying, but if you take the KIY here 
> as introducing a rhetorical question, it makes Saul's statements 
> become sort of like "who does this type of thing?"  In other words 
> when a man finds his adversary he normally kills him, but not 
> David.  And so I think Saul is asking "who does this type of thing?"
> "When a man finds his adversary, does he send him on the good 
> road?" The obvious answer is no.  He tries to kill him.  Then I 
> think you should take V:$ALLEM"KA as a jussive.  May the Lord 
> "reward you" well....
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Karl:> In light of the recent discussion of literal verses ideational
> > translations, this passage would almost be unintelligible as a 
> > word for word translation. Even this quick translation could be 
> > greatly polished for smoother reading in English.
> 
> Response: Yes, I see what you are saying.  But I do personally 
> think there is merit to what HALOT is saying.  Here is my rendering
> And if a man a man finds his adversary, does he send him on a good 
> road?  May the Lord reward you in return this day which you did to 
> me.
> 
> --
> Kelton Graham
>   KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-- 
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