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  • From: David P Donnelly <davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [b-hebrew] gutturals and composite shewa
  • Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:27:14 -0400

Kelton Graham asks:

>>>
@Dave:

So what is there take on the ketive/qere element in the pronouciation of
Jehovah?

--
Kelton Graham
>>>

Kelton,

KJVO Christians believe that permanent Qere is an unproven assumption,
as far as Y:HOVFH is concerned.

It is very difficult to convince a KJVO Christian that Y:EHOVIH is a
proven example of permanent Qere.

Many KJVO Christians refuse to acknowledge that Y:EHOVIH is actually
preserved about 305 times in the Ben Chayyim Hebrew text, unless someone
could provide photos from an original edition of the Ben Chayyim Hebrew
text.

Dave Donnelly
>From kevlds AT hotmail.com Tue Sep 6 09:52:22 2005
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Divine body parts, was: Doctorates (PhD or ThD?)
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>Well, the ancient theological tradition is that the "image of God" was not
>physical but moral and spiritual.

But this is not true. The ANE evidence demonstrates that the "image of God"
conveyed no message of man's "morality." You´re referring to a much later
innovated explanation that dominated Christian apologia. The problem with
this is that Genesis was written in an ANE cultural context, not later
hellenization/Christian period, from whence this explanation originated.

>It is hard to be sure how ancient that understanding is. It could well be
>as old as the text,

Not likely. Most commentators will readily admit that in all likelihood, the
Ancient mind did not think so abstractly. Some argue that they were
incapable of it. All the ANE evidence leans towards a literal reading. Can
you name one single piece of ANE evidence that would support the "morality"
interpretation?

>especially if that text is rather late as many hold. I accept that an
>alternative is that an ancient more anthropomorphic sense was reinterpreted
>by later biblical authors.

Yes I agree. It was reinterpreted to be read abstractly. These are
anachronistic interpretations that had no meaning in Ancient Judaism.

>Well, Moses could not see God's face because he doesn't have a visible face
>- a lesson which God was trying to teach Moses with this incident.

This is interpretation which begs the question. Some scholars see the danger
motif in seeing God's face as evidence that this means God actually does
have a face. This makes alot of sense actually.

== What was it that Moses actually saw? The text refers
>to God's 'AXORIYM, a word which can refer to the rear parts of an object or
>a person, but is more commonly rather metaphorical, so the translation
>might be more like "from behind".

Can you demonstrate how the Hebrew in this instance was used elsewhere to
refer to something that didn't really have a "behind"? If God is an
invisible, incorporeal mass of spirit - as so many theologians insist -then
how could Moses presume to refer to a front of back? Or God's hand which
blocked his view? Tselem refers to a three-dimensional image, does it not?
Everytime it is used in the Bible (with the possible exception of Ps 73) it
refers to a physical object.

>This sounds like a metaphorical description of the pillar of cloud and
>fire, God's shekinah glory, which Moses and the Israelites are to follow.

Not a compelling argument. This implies Moses' experience was no more unique
- aside from verbal communication with Yahweh -than the Israelites who were
looking up from underneath the cloud. Yet, his experience transformed him
physically. In order to assume metaphor, one must explain the metaphorical
meaning. Without such, it cannot be metaphor.

>I don't think it requires to be taken literally.

In an ANE context it does.






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