Biblical Hebrew Forum

[kgraham0938 AT comcast.net]

@Dave:

So what is there take on the ketive/qere element in the pronouciation of 
Jehovah?

--
Kelton Graham 
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message -------------- 

> Yigal Levin writes: 
> 
> >>> 
> Good question. Why is the yod in most accurances of YHWH, when supposedly 
> meant to be vocalized "Adonai", spelled with a shewa and not a 
> hataph-patah, 
> like the aleph in Adonai? Don't know. I don't think that it has to do 
> with 
> the Aramaic Shema - that is a Samaritan tradition, which I doubt would 
> have 
> influenced the masoretes. 
> 
> Besides, in most prints (but not in BHS), the he in YHWH has a holam, 
> like the dalet in Adonai (this is the source of the pronunciation 
> "Jehovah"). 
> >>> 
> 
> There are a small number of KJVO Christians, 
> who believe that the vowel points of Y:HOWFH, 
> are the actual vowel points of God's name. 
> 
> They defend the name "Jehovah" 
> because they note correctly, 
> that Y:HOWFH does not have the precise vowel points of "Adonay". 
> 
> They specifically point out that while the yod in Y:EHOWIH does have a 
> composite shewa 
> [e.g. a hatefh-segol] under it, 
> the yod in Y:HOWFH has a simple shewa under it. 
> 
> Thus they insist that since the Masoretes did not place the hatef-patah 
> from Adonay 
> under the yod in Y:HOWFH, 
> that Y:HOWFH [translated as Jehovah] is actually God's name. 
> 
> Dave Donnelly 
> _______________________________________________ 
> b-hebrew mailing list 
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org 
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew 
>From gfsomsel AT juno.com  Tue Sep  6 09:00:29 2005
Return-Path: <gfsomsel AT juno.com>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: from m04.lax.untd.com (m04.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.67])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 84F7F4C011
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Tue,  6 Sep 2005 09:00:25 -0400 
(EDT)
Received: from m04.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
        by m04.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBT5EY9ABVQ7FS
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org> (sender <gfsomsel AT juno.com>);
        Tue,  6 Sep 2005 06:00:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from gfsomsel AT juno.com) 
        by m04.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id K38FDZBB;
        Tue, 06 Sep 2005 05:59:48 PDT
To: peterkirk AT qaya.org
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:11:14 -0400
Message-ID: <20050906.091114.-1040709.3.gfsomsel AT juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-21,23-24,35-38
From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel AT juno.com>
X-ContentStamp: 14:7:2514439612
X-MAIL-INFO: 23a9c9b0f97549d061b1c1e991adb16405000d6591e010
X-UNTD-OriginStamp: w3STQS63J+y68QsFU7oRtBjOD4alWIOs2Z92IKjCiOf9j5DvEJbAJQ==
X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m04.lax.untd.com|gfsomsel AT juno.com
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org, K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Cognate languages - limitations
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6
Precedence: list
List-Id: Hebrew Bible List <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 13:00:29 -0000

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 12:50:03 +0100 Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
writes:
> On 06/09/2005 12:09, Read, James C wrote:
> 
> Thank you, James. I have learned to ignore George's side swipes at 
> me. 
> He is quite capable of joining me in a lengthy debate when he 
> chooses 
> to. And his accusation of "baloney" is now withdrawn because you 
> have 
> met his condition "Unless James Read can supply something other than 
> 
> nebulous claims that this has occurred in his case".
> -- 
> Peter Kirk
> peter AT qaya.org (personal)
> peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
> http://www.qaya.org/
________________

Peter, 

James has provided absolutely nothing so my judgment that his claim is
"baloney" still stands.

The two of us have met one another electronically for a number of years. 
I think you know where I stand and I know where you stand.  I will on
ocassion enter into the fray of an extended "conversation", but I prefer
to make my points and move on.  I do have other things to do other than
to sit at my keyboard answering e-mail all day.  Some will never change
their minds even though you hit them upside the head with facts so it is
best to state one's position an drop the matter.  While we have
frequently been in disagreement, I trust that in many respects we are
united.  My remarks regarding your persistence in argument were not
particularly meant as a swipe at you but were simply an acknowledgement
of the fact that you are like a dog with a bone who will not let go.

george
gfsomsel
___________