Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>]

I do not wish to touch on modern Christian ideas of =
inspiration because that 
will open a whole new can of worms far worse than an=
y provocative discussion 
in the entire history of this mailing list.

What I will say is this.
Paul wrote to Timothy that all scripture was 'god-breathed=
'. It is a well 
established fact that when we speak we continually exhale =
in order to make 
those sounds audible. Paul is merely saying that the ori=
gin of all scripture 
is the god, yhwh. He is saying that yhwh spoke (breath=
ed) these words and the 
prophets of old merely penned them.

This idea is pervasive in every single book of the tan=
akh and the list of references
to such ideaology are for too great to be held in a =
single post. And so I will only
offer a few well known examples

Lev27:34 'These are the commandments that Yahoweh gvae Mos=
he as commandments to 
Isreal's children in Mount Sinai'
Josh8:1 'Then Yahoweh said to Joshua "Don't be afraid...
Judges1:2 'To this Yahoweh said "Judah will go up...
1Sam2:27 And one of the God's men came to Eli and sa=
id to him "This is what Yahweh has said...
2Sam2:1 ...At this Yahoweh said to him...
1Kings3:5 'In Gibeon Yehuweh appeared to Solomon in a dr=
eam and says...
Isaiah1:10 'Hear Yehoweh's word...
Jer1:2 Yahoweh's word came to me...
Eze1:3 Yahoweh's word came to me

One feature we notice, especially in prophecy, is that w=
e don't have to read much before 
we are told that these are Yahoweh's words.
Yahoweh's words were considered sacred and thus a traditio=
n of faithful copying was initiated 
by Moshe that continued through all the Kings, through E=
zra, through the days of the apostles
(I bear witness to everyone that hears the words of th=
e prohecy of this scroll: If anyone makes
an addition to these things, The God will add to him =
all the plagues that are written in this 
scroll; and if anyone takes anything away from the words=
 of the scroll of this prophecy, The God
will take his portion aaaaaway from the trees of life"Re=
v22:18,19) and right up to the days of 
the Masoreted.
So strong was the tradition that they dared not replace =
the now unused divine name. And they 
dared not correct the obvious copying error of the 'HiY)=
' v's 'HuW)'.

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Good Work!

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Alexander Oldernes
Sent: Tue 8/2/2005 8:11 AM
To: b-hebrew
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Inspiration
 
If I have understood your question correctly, this may be useful...

Hosea 9:7
NJB: "The prophet is mad and the inspired man a fool!"
NIV: "The prophet is considered a fool, the inspired man a maniac"

Heb: 'ish haruach

Literally "man of the spirit"
Greek: an´thropos ho pneumatopho´ros, "man bearing the spirit; man inspired"
Latin Vulgate, Clementine recension: Vi´rum spiritua´lem


Alexander Oldernes


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Riley" <klriley AT alphalink.com.au>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Inspiration


> This is what led me to ask my initial question - that many people here, 
> and
> elsewhere, assume that the view that the ancient Hebrews had of 
> "inspiration
> [God being in some way the origin of the message] is the same as the view
> they have today.  It may be so, but where is the evidence?  To discuss our
> view is outside the scope of this list, but to look at texts in the Hebrew
> Scriptures, perhaps argue a little over the meaning of some words in those
> texts if we disagree, or discuss why we would include or exclude certain
> texts from the discussion, that is what I thought was appropriate here.  I
> wanted to avoid simply asserting belief in views we hold by faith, or
> insisting that the ancient Hebrews must have believed what we believe
> because that is what our faith demands.  Rather, from the words of the
> Hebrew Scriptures themselves, in the context in which they occur, can we
> infer anything about *their* view of inspiration.
>
> Kevin Riley 

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Also of interest to the subject at hand is the following:

'Now as soon as he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai he 
gave Moshe two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone written on 
by The God's finger.'Exo31:18

Using the critical process of analysis we can only infer that the 
commandments on the stones were directly inspired by Yahoweh. And in 
this case actually written by him, himself. This seems to call to mind
how much more important they were than the rest of the law which is 
full of rules on how to settle squabbles, be ritually clean etc.

However, in other parts of the torah there are clues to its origin 
being directly Yahoweh.

e.g 
Sections of Exodus are direct quotes of Yahoweh's words. See Exo3 onwards
Lev1:1 and Lev27:34 show that the entire book of Lev was directly 
god-breathed.
Large sections of Numbers are direct quotations from Yahoweh.
The direct discourse of Deu5, which we have theorised could have been 
the original law-scroll that Joshua copied is also attributed to being 
Yahoweh's words.

Love and Shalom
James-Christian

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Read, James C
Sent: Tue 8/2/2005 10:30 AM
To: Alexander Oldernes
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Inspiration
 

Good Work!

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Alexander Oldernes
Sent: Tue 8/2/2005 8:11 AM
To: b-hebrew
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Inspiration
 
If I have understood your question correctly, this may be useful...

Hosea 9:7
NJB: "The prophet is mad and the inspired man a fool!"
NIV: "The prophet is considered a fool, the inspired man a maniac"

Heb: 'ish haruach

Literally "man of the spirit"
Greek: an´thropos ho pneumatopho´ros, "man bearing the spirit; man inspired"
Latin Vulgate, Clementine recension: Vi´rum spiritua´lem


Alexander Oldernes


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Riley" <klriley AT alphalink.com.au>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Inspiration


> This is what led me to ask my initial question - that many people here, 
> and
> elsewhere, assume that the view that the ancient Hebrews had of 
> "inspiration
> [God being in some way the origin of the message] is the same as the view
> they have today.  It may be so, but where is the evidence?  To discuss our
> view is outside the scope of this list, but to look at texts in the Hebrew
> Scriptures, perhaps argue a little over the meaning of some words in those
> texts if we disagree, or discuss why we would include or exclude certain
> texts from the discussion, that is what I thought was appropriate here.  I
> wanted to avoid simply asserting belief in views we hold by faith, or
> insisting that the ancient Hebrews must have believed what we believe
> because that is what our faith demands.  Rather, from the words of the
> Hebrew Scriptures themselves, in the context in which they occur, can we
> infer anything about *their* view of inspiration.
>
> Kevin Riley 

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew

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The following link provides a history of the Chinese:

http://www.threekingdoms.com/history.htm#2_3_1

It states that:

 All accounts, however, agree that the basin of the Yellow River was the 
cradle of the Chinese culture, and that their ancestors were a nomadic people 
who, some five or six thousand years ago, migrated from the north-western 
part of Asia and finally settled in the northern-central part of what is now 
China.

END QUOTE

This could well have been a migrating family descendent of one of Noah's 
three children.

It goes on to speak of a legend:

2. Mythological Era
(BC 5000-2200)

2.1. Age of the Three Divine Rulers

Given the first rank among the chieftains is Fuxi, or "Conqueror of Animals." 
He taught his subjects how to catch animals and fish with nets and to rear 
domestic animals for food. He is also the originator of the writing system 
which, with their improvements and modifications of ages, has been handed 
down to us in the form of the modern Chinese characters. 

END QUOTE

Could this be Nimrod? Nimrod the great hunter in opposition to Yahoweh? The 
strokes of Chinese writings seem
to have a lot in common with the strokes we see in cuneiform tablets and this 
could explain why so many Japanese words seem to come from semitic roots.


Any thoughts?

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Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 12:56:57 +0200
From: Alexander Oldernes <alexander AT oldernes.no>
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Subject: [b-hebrew]  Stone slab replacing the Ark of the Covenant
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Maybe your expertise can help me with this question...

I have read somewhere that when the curtain covering the entrance to the
Most Holy was torn in two, in the first century CE, the Most Holy was
exposed containing no Ark of the Covenant. In place of the Ark was a stone
slab upon which the high priest sprinkled the blood on the Day of Atonement.

I know the last mention of the Ark of the Covenant is in 2. Chronicles 35:5,
saying:
He said to the Levites, who instructed all Israel and who had been
consecrated to YHWH: "Put the sacred ark in the temple that Solomon son of
David king of Israel built. It is not to be carried about on your
shoulders."

This happened around 642 (?) BCE.

And now the question...
Do we know that the Ark of the Covenant was replaced by a stone slab?

If so...
Who writes about it?
Do we know when this was done?
Do we know what the stone slab looked like?

----

Alexander Oldernes