Biblical Hebrew Forum

[David P Donnelly <davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>]

Peter Kirk asks:

>>>
What is your evidence that the name Jove was ever pronounced with an 
"a"  vowel? 
This is certainly not regular pronunciation of Latin "o".
>>>

Peter,
My evidence is found in anti-Yahweh articles so it may be suspect.
http://www.yahushua.net/YHWH.htm
At the link above it says:
>>>
So what about the pronunciation Yahweh? 
In our search for truth, we do not want to leave any stone unturned. 
The following information is something that needs to be prayerfully
considered. 
In Roman mythology, the idol "Jupiter" is the same as the idol "Zeus" in
Greek mythology. 
According to Latin grammar, Jove is the ablative case of Jupiter.
In Classical Latin, the pronunciation of Jove (Iove) is Y-A-W-E, 
with the “j” (i) sounding like a “y”, 
the “o” being a short sound [like the “o” in “Bob”] 
the “v” sounds like a “w”, 
and the “e” sounds like “eh”. 
>>>
*************************************************************************
*****************
http://www.yahushua.net/latin_pronunciation.htm
The above site claims to give Latin Pronunciation from the first century.
It lists short “o” as in “Rob”
I may be trying to force an “aw” pronunciation for “o”
by reasoning that Raw with a “b” added to it sounds like “Rob”
And in Joshua I may be trying to force “J + “awe”+ shua to sound like
“Joshua”
So I end up with “o” sounding like “aw” or “awe” 
And when I place that pronunciation [I.e. “awe“] in “Jove” I get “J” +
“Awe” + veh.
**********************************************************************
http://www.pastorjohnshouse.com/broad/yahweh.htm
At the above link it says:
>>>
Now, consider carefully these facts about Latin grammar:
First, just as in Hebrew, Latin has neither the English "J" nor "V"
sound. 
Latin "J" is pronounced as the English "Y", 
and the Latin "V" is pronounced as an English "W". 
Secondly, there is no silent "E" in Latin.
If a Latin word ends with an "E", it is pronounced as a short "eh" sound.

Thirdly, as anyone learns in the first few days of studying the Latin
language,
a short "O" sound (such as in the Latin word Jove) is difficult to spell
out, 
but is somewhat like "AH". 
This means that if we pronounce Jove according to the rules of Latin
grammar 
which we are taught, 
if we pronounce Jove as an ancient Roman would have done, 
Jove would be pronounced very nearly, 
if not exactly as the modern Christian name for their god: Yahweh. 
Can anyone honestly believe that this is a coincidence? 
>>>
What do you think Peter?

Are  these above three sites telling the truth?

Dave Donnelly



On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 14:17:31 +0100 Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
writes:
> On 23/07/2005 11:40, David P Donnelly wrote:
> 
> >Does "IaBe" = "YHWH" or does "IaBe" =  "Jove"?
> >Josephus Book 12, Chapter 5 quotes the Samaritans as saying [under
> >duress]:
> >  
> >
> >... let our temple which at present hath no name at all,
> >be named the Temple of Jupiter Hellenius.
> >  
> >
> >The God of Jupiter is said to be named “Jove”.
> >“Jove” is thought to be pronounced similar to “IaBe”
> >Some sources recommend pronouncing the "o"  in "Jove" as "ah",
> >but instead try pronouncing the “o” in “Jove”,  like the “o” in 
> “Joshua”
> >e.g. J(awe)v(eh) 
> >
> >To be redundant:
> >Does "IaBe" = "YHWH" or does "IaBe" =  "Jove"?
> >  
> >
> 
> Well, there are several underlying issues here.
> 
> Could the Samaritans' use of the name YHWH have been derived from 
> the 
> Latin Jupiter (i.e Iu-father) or Jove (Latin stem form Iou-)? No, 
> surely 
> not, for the name YHWH was in use long before the Romans came to the 
> area.
> 
> Could the Latin Jupiter/Jove be derived from the name YHWH? 
> Possibly. 
> Early Rome was certainly strongly influenced by Phoenicians, who may 
> 
> have included some worshippers of YHWH, cf. the probably Phoenician 
> sailors in the book of Jonah, who, while polytheists, seem to have 
> recognised YHWH as the creator God and prayed to him to save them 
> (Jonah 
> 1:9-10,14).
> 
> Could the Samaritans have chosen to allow their temple to be named 
> after 
> Jupiter because of the similarity of names? This one is entirely 
> possible - and also they may have considered that Jupiter, the chief 
> god 
> of the Romans, was the best Roman parallel to YHWH in his general 
> characteristics rather than his name.
> 
> Could the name IABE quoted by Theodoret in fact be a form of 
> Jupiter/Jove? This seems unlikely. I think that Greek authors 
> generally 
> replaced the name Jupiter/Jove by Zeus. But if one had attempted to 
> render the form Jove in Greek letters, he or she would surely have 
> used 
> an "o" or "u" vowel, rather than "a", in the first syllable.
> 
> What is your evidence that the name Jove was ever pronounced with an 
> "a" 
> vowel? This is certainly not regular pronunciation of Latin "o".
> 
> -- 
> Peter Kirk
> peter AT qaya.org (personal)
> peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
> http://www.qaya.org/
> 
> 
> 
>From hholmyard AT ont.com  Sat Jul 23 10:44:40 2005
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Dear Peter,

One online source for the textual variants in Mark has this 
information about 15:34:
http://www.dtl.org/alt/variants/mark.htm

15:34   MT: lima - TR: lamma - CT: lema

The abbreviations are as follows:

For ease in comparing Bible translations, this section lists either 
every translatable variant or significant variants between the 
Byzantine Majority Text (MT), the Textus Receptus (TR), and the 
Critical Text (CT).

                                        Yours,
                                        Harold Holmyard