Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>]

Yes please. 
I would be most grateful.


-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Patrick J. Emsweller
Sent: Wed 7/20/2005 6:25 PM
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] yhwh pronunciation
 
James,

 

Yes, I believe in a chapter or in the prologue discussing recently
interpreted hieroglyphic and cuneiform texts.  I would have to pull it off
my shelf to be sure, but I could do that and type up the text for you if you
would like.

 

-patrick

 

  _____  

From: Read, James C [mailto:K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 12:58 PM
To: Patrick J. Emsweller; b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] yhwh pronunciation

 

 

Thanx. Do you know if yhwh is attested in these texts? And if so where?

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Patrick J. Emsweller
Sent: Wed 7/20/2005 5:49 PM
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] yhwh pronunciation


James wrote:

Does anyone know of extra biblical Semitic texts which attest to the divine
name as a foreign god?

Reply:

I don't know if this has been mentioned or if you are already familiar with
it, if so I apologize.  If not, you might want to pick up "Cory's Ancient
Fragments of the Phoenician, Carthaginian, Babylonian, Egyptian and Other
Writers".  ISBN 0766158098.  This is a rare and expensive book, however
Kessinger Publishing has reprinted it at a reasonable price with I think
some added notes.  It is available through Amazon, or probably any online
book store.

Anyway just thought I would throw it out there for you.

-patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Read, James C
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 11:14 AM
To: Harold R. Holmyard III; b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] yhwh pronunciation

I sometimes wonder, but maybe I am just paranoid, if
there are modern day Hebrews in high standing who keep
the real pronunciation and meaning of yhwh as a closely
guarded secret and pass them down from generation to
generation to keep them alive.
I noticed before that someone mentiones that Josephus
commented that 'it was no longer lawful' for him to
pronounce the name, implying that it happened in his
lifetime and that the current pronunciation was known to
him. Does anyone know where exactly he says that? I
should be very interested in reading the account.
It was also questioned before why ehyeh (hyh) is related
to yhwh (hwh). I have reason to believe that as the name
had already been widely accepted as being pronounced in
certain way at the time of the penning of the Torah that
this is why yhwh remained as it was even though the common
usage in the Hebrew of that time was to use the hyh form.
The reason I have come to this conclusion is the patterns we
see in scripture before the widespread of the superstition
which banned its usage.
1) Early MSS of the LXX show a hebrew tetragrammaton amongst
Greek writing
2) DSS, in places, show archaic lettering of yhwh amidst the
by now widely accepted aramaic lettering of the rest of the
manuscripts
These factors led me to believe that the behaviour was to preserve
its ancient pronunciation against the flow of evolution of the
rest of the language. Thus Moshe wrote ehyeh as the normal way
of saying the verb form in his day while he wrote yhwh which had
already by now been written in stone (so to speak).

Does anyone know of extrabiblical semitic texts which attest to
the divine name as a foreign god?

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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Eccl 4:10 plural
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On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 12:38:32 -0600 Dave Washburn <dwashbur AT nyx.net>
writes:
> I came across this and the plural verb has me baffled:
>
> KIY )IM YIP.OLW. HF)EXAD
>
> BHS doesn't show any textual variant here, so I wonder: does anybody
> have an
> idea why we have the plural verb YIP.OLW. with "the one", HFEXAD, as
> its
> subject?????
>
> --
> Dave Washburn
> http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
> Reality is what refuses to go away when
> you stop believing in it.
 _______________________________________________

It appears to me that the plural reflects +oWiYM Ha$.:NaYiM MiN_Hf)eXfD
of the preceding verse.

george
gfsomsel
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"Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>
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Actually, come to think of it. Does anyone know of any notes the masoretes 
themselves made on the subject of the divine name?

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>From regalzi AT interfree.it  Wed Jul 20 15:31:41 2005
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Eccl 4:10 plural
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Dave Washburn wrote:

> I came across this and the plural verb has me baffled:
>
> KIY )IM YIP.OLW. HF)EXAD
>
> BHS doesn't show any textual variant here, so I wonder: does anybody have
> an idea why we have the plural verb YIP.OLW. with "the one", HFEXAD, as
> its subject?????

As the text stands, the subject of YIP.OLW. is HA$.:NAYIM in the previous
verse. Note the zaqef over YIP.OLW.

The verse is not without its problems, though: if both fall, how can "the
one" help the other to get up again?

Giuseppe

---------------------------------------
Giuseppe Regalzi, PhD
Rome, Italy
regalzi AT interfree.it
http://regalzi.port5.com/
http://www.orientalisti.net/