Biblical Hebrew Forum

[kgraham0938 AT comcast.net]

@Trevor
Well I was thinking more on the lines like.  If elohim is translated as God, 
it would come out like. " You (God) have made him lower than God."  That does 
not make much sense to me.

So I was saying that maybe the mem there is saying that God has made man 
lower 'than' something else called Elohim.   Since XSR has an imperfect 2nd 
person prefix, I see that as the subject.  You[God] have made man lower than 
some other being called Elohim.

Make sense??

--
Kelton Graham 
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message -------------- 

> ----- Original Message Follows ----- 
> From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net 
> To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org 
> Subject: [b-hebrew] God vs angels in Ps 8:5 
> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:52:48 +0000 
> 
> > Worknig on a paper here and I was wondering which way most 
> > people translate Ps 8:5. I was thinking maybe the LXX is 
> > the correct translation because of the mem in front of 
> > Elohim. 
> > 
> > You have made him lower than (mem) something else. If the 
> > Psalmist wanted to express God there. He could have said 
> > you have made him lower than yourself. 
> > 
> > But I think the mem illustrates that God has made man 
> > lower than something other than himself, namely angels or 
> > some sort of heavenly being. -- 
> 
> I'm not sure I follow your argument here. Are you saying the 
> preposition min makes this less likely to be about God, or 
> is it the use of elohim rather than a second person pronoun? 
> I think there may be something to the suggestion, but it 
> seems a bit muddled as it's written. 
> 
> Trevor Peterson 
> CUA/Semitics 
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>From peterkirk AT qaya.org  Fri Mar 25 13:00:13 2005
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] God vs angels in Ps 8:5
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On 25/03/2005 17:38, kgraham0938 AT comcast.net wrote:

>@Trevor
>Well I was thinking more on the lines like.  If elohim is translated as God, 
>it would come out like. " You (God) have made him lower than God."  That 
>does not make much sense to me.
>
>So I was saying that maybe the mem there is saying that God has made man 
>lower 'than' something else called Elohim.   Since XSR has an imperfect 2nd 
>person prefix, I see that as the subject.  You[God] have made man lower than 
>some other being called Elohim.
>
>  
>
Well, the one addressed is not just any old Elohim, but YHWH himself. In 
the psalmist's time there were certainly many entities in the class of 
Elohim: certainly pagan gods, whether or not they were considered to 
have any spiritual reality or just to be blocks of wood as in Isaiah's 
satire; and then there are a number of Hebrew Bible passages which refer 
to plural Elohim, or sons of Elohim. See for example Psalm 82:1. Whether 
these are exactly the same as "angels" is debatable - although the LXX 
rendering was commonly AGGELOS.

So I would take the meaning to be that YHWH made man a little lower, not 
than himself, but than any being in the category Elohim. So NIV's and 
TNIV's "heavenly beings" is a good rendering here, in my opinion.

-- 
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/



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