Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] God vs angels in Ps 8:5

b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] God vs angels in Ps 8:5
  • Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 17:38:08 +0000

@Trevor
Well I was thinking more on the lines like. If elohim is translated as God,
it would come out like. " You (God) have made him lower than God." That does
not make much sense to me.

So I was saying that maybe the mem there is saying that God has made man
lower 'than' something else called Elohim. Since XSR has an imperfect 2nd
person prefix, I see that as the subject. You[God] have made man lower than
some other being called Elohim.

Make sense??

--
Kelton Graham
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message --------------

> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net
> To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: [b-hebrew] God vs angels in Ps 8:5
> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:52:48 +0000
>
> > Worknig on a paper here and I was wondering which way most
> > people translate Ps 8:5. I was thinking maybe the LXX is
> > the correct translation because of the mem in front of
> > Elohim.
> >
> > You have made him lower than (mem) something else. If the
> > Psalmist wanted to express God there. He could have said
> > you have made him lower than yourself.
> >
> > But I think the mem illustrates that God has made man
> > lower than something other than himself, namely angels or
> > some sort of heavenly being. --
>
> I'm not sure I follow your argument here. Are you saying the
> preposition min makes this less likely to be about God, or
> is it the use of elohim rather than a second person pronoun?
> I think there may be something to the suggestion, but it
> seems a bit muddled as it's written.
>
> Trevor Peterson
> CUA/Semitics
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>From peterkirk AT qaya.org Fri Mar 25 13:00:13 2005
Return-Path: <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: from pan.hu-pan.com (hu-pan.com [67.15.6.3])
by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 644FD4C00B
for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:00:13 -0500
(EST)
Received: from 213-162-124-237.peterk253.adsl.metronet.co.uk
([213.162.124.237] helo=[10.0.0.1])
by pan.hu-pan.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.50)
id 1DEt6R-0001o4-3P; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 18:00:11 +0000
Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.8.1]);
Fri, 25 Mar 2005 17:56:38 +0000
Message-ID: <424450D6.30506 AT qaya.org>
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 17:56:38 +0000
From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217
X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en, en-us, az, ru, tr, he, el, fr, de
To: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] God vs angels in Ps 8:5
References:
<032520051738.11664.42444C80000944D800002D902200748184C8CCC7CF030E080E9D0905 AT comcast.net>
In-Reply-To:
<032520051738.11664.42444C80000944D800002D902200748184C8CCC7CF030E080E9D0905 AT comcast.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,
please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - pan.hu-pan.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.ibiblio.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - qaya.org
X-Source:
X-Source-Args:
X-Source-Dir:
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Hebrew Bible List <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
<mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
<mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 18:00:13 -0000

On 25/03/2005 17:38, kgraham0938 AT comcast.net wrote:

>@Trevor
>Well I was thinking more on the lines like. If elohim is translated as God,
>it would come out like. " You (God) have made him lower than God." That
>does not make much sense to me.
>
>So I was saying that maybe the mem there is saying that God has made man
>lower 'than' something else called Elohim. Since XSR has an imperfect 2nd
>person prefix, I see that as the subject. You[God] have made man lower than
>some other being called Elohim.
>
>
>
Well, the one addressed is not just any old Elohim, but YHWH himself. In
the psalmist's time there were certainly many entities in the class of
Elohim: certainly pagan gods, whether or not they were considered to
have any spiritual reality or just to be blocks of wood as in Isaiah's
satire; and then there are a number of Hebrew Bible passages which refer
to plural Elohim, or sons of Elohim. See for example Psalm 82:1. Whether
these are exactly the same as "angels" is debatable - although the LXX
rendering was commonly AGGELOS.

So I would take the meaning to be that YHWH made man a little lower, not
than himself, but than any being in the category Elohim. So NIV's and
TNIV's "heavenly beings" is a good rendering here, in my opinion.

--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 23/03/2005





Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page