Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph AT email.com>]

Yitzhak:

I don't think one can make a fast rule that )$R is spelled out in poetry and 
the prefix contraction $- is found in prose. I haven't made a serious study 
on the question, but my impression is that the contraction is more often 
found in poetry, though I may be wrong.

As for the Shafel, did the ancient Hebrews ever speak Amarna Canaanite?

You know what I think of the points, that if they don't fit the consonental 
context that I am ready to ditch them. They are late additions. They are not 
canon. Where I agree with them, I find them unnecessary, where I disagree, I 
find them distracting, hence I prefer the unpointed text.

Song of Songs, poetry, in 1:6 I read three $- prefixes, one of them before 
the verb $ZP. I don't see any causative in the use there beyond that implied 
by )$R.

In Judges 5:7 Deborah is singing after the fact, the context also indicates 
that this was a victory song after the victory. So your question about the 
perfective being used in this phrase to indicate future doesn't apply.

While the Shafel form may existed in other languages, I see no evidence that 
it existed in Hebrew. Even $LHBT is used only three times (according to a 
quick electronic search) in contexts that can call into question if it is a 
$- prefix.

In closing, I recognize that you were asking a question, and I answered from 
my perspective, that the answer is No.

Karl W. Randolph.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Yitzhak Sapir" <yitzhaksapir AT gmail.com>

> 
> Karl Randolph wrote:
> > Yitzhak:
> >
> > Judges 5:7 is not a clear example to point to for the Shafel 
> > form. I have always read it as (D )$R [verb] phrase which means 
> > until the action specified by the verb happens. But in the poetic 
> > form, the )$R is shortened to a prefixed $-. The (D )$R is 
> > spelled out in over 40 verses in Tanakh.
> 
> Hello Karl,
> 
> Firstly, my point was that I was looking for some substantiation, not
> necessarily conclusive, that this can be read as a Shafel, and what I found
> instead was apparently evidence that 1) Shafel was no longer used by the
> 14th century in Amarna Canaanite, 2) Languages have only either Shafel or
> Haphel/Hiphil/Aphel/etc, 3) This form is almost consistently read as an
> archaic feminine 2nd person suffixed verb from the root q-w-m with the
> participle $.  I was beginning to wonder if I correctly remembered what I 
> read
> years ago about Shaqqamti being Shafel and not making things up.  I found
> only that one sentence in Rabin's book to suggest there may be something to
> it, and my research made this sentence seem apparently very unlikely.
> 
> So these articles essentially showed that 1) There are some forms of Shafel
> in Amarna Canaanite, 2) Ugaritic has a Shafel but /h/ in the 3rd person
> pronouns, and various other languages apparently have mostly Haphel but
> some Shafel, 3) at least a suggestion by two linguists that this should be
> read as a Shafel.  Furthermore, the same chapter mentions Shamgar, who
> some thought to derive from a Shafel form of the verb m-g-r.  I 
> don't intend to
> base any conclusions on this Shafel reading but it can come as secondary
> supporting evidence for a thesis I'm developing.  In the end, the decision 
> of
> Shafel or not boils down to how you interpret the semantic meaning of the
> word, I think, but perhaps a grammatical point in favor of Shafel 
> in opposition
> to a participle, is the patah under the $.  All other cases of the 
> $ participle
> have a kamatz or seghol, I think.
> 
> Secondly, more obvious forms, in my opinion, were Shalhevet and
> Sheshsh:zaphathni (Song of Songs 1:6), where there is a very readable
> three consonant root preceding by a non-participle $, and the word clearly
> fits a causative of the three consonant root.
> 
> Thirdly, I found no examples of Ad with a past tense verb speaking of future
> tense, including in poetry.  Generally, it seems to me that Ad Qatalti means
> "until I killed" (past tense sentence), and Ad Eqtol means "until I will 
> kill"
> (future tense).  I haven't really done an exhaustive attempt to 
> study this yet,
> though.  For now, I just browsed a concordance to see how it works out.
> 
> Finally, a$er is spelled out in poetry, and $ used in prose, if I remember
> correctly.  It's not so clear cut.
> 
> Yitzhak Sapir
-- 
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