Biblical Hebrew Forum

[David P Donnelly <davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>]

Concerning the holem being centered between 
the right side of the vav 
and the left side of the he 
in YHWH at Genesis 3:14 in the Leningrad Codex,
Peter Kirk said

>>>
This is the typical position of holam in the Leningrad codex, 
on any  word,
not just the divine name, 
and before any letter, 
not just vav. 

It  is a later convention to shift holam to the left when followed by a 
 silent vav and sometimes a silent alef, 
and to the right otherwise. 
>>>
Dave asks Peter:

Isn't the holem shifted to the top right of the vav,
when the holem is followed by a silent vav.

In Joshua 1:1 in the BHS text,
the holem is placed at the top right of the vav in Yehowshua/Yehoshua.

The holem in effect follows the he, 
and I thought that this holem was followed by a  silent vav,
although by James Strong's convention, 
he appears to write the silent vav as the "w" in Yehowshua
[e.g. Hebrew word #3091  

Doesn't the "w" in James Strong's transliteration of Hebrew word #3091,
[by convention] 
indicate a silent vav??????????

The KJV translates Numbers 13:16 as Jehoshua [not Jehowshua] .

Dave Donnelly

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:18:43 -0700 Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
writes:
> On 24/09/2003 06:13, David P Donnelly wrote:
> 
> >I own a Facsimile Edition of the Leningrad Codex.
> >
> >I have been examining the Leningrad Codex 
> >at both Genesis 3:14 
> >and at Genesis 9:26
> >
> >In both of these verse in the BHS Text,
> >YHWH is found in the Hebrew word #3068 form.
> >[e.g. yod-simple shewa-he-holem-vav-qamets-he]
> >
> >In the BHS Text the holem is found at the top right of the vav
> >in YHWH in the above two verses.
> >
> >In the Leningrad Codex the holem is found in the space between the 
> vav
> >and the first he in YHWH in the above two verses.
> >
> >A portion of the holem is above the top right of the vav.
> >A portion of the holem is above the top left of the first he.
> >  
> >
> This is the typical position of holam in the Leningrad codex, on any 
> 
> word, not just the divine name, and before any letter, not just vav. 
> It 
> is a later convention to shift holam to the left when followed by a 
> 
> silent vav and sometimes a silent alef, and to the right otherwise. 
> And 
> an even later one to confuse the two positions of holam on vav, in 
> the 
> vowel-only holam male (full holam or holam-vav combination) and the 
> 
> consonant-vowel sequence of vav followed by holam. See 
> http://www.qaya.org/academic/hebrew/Issues-Hebrew-Unicode.html.
> 
> >Copyright laws prevent me from legally scanning these two verses 
> >and sending them as e-mail attachments.
> >  
> >
> Even small extracts for scholarly study purposes?
> 
> The images from L in 
> http://www.qaya.org/academic/hebrew/Issues-Hebrew-Unicode.html were 
> 
> taken from extracts on other web sites. My scans from BHS are legal 
> as I 
> understand it.
> 
> >Dave Donnelly
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Peter Kirk
> peter AT qaya.org (personal)
> peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
> http://www.qaya.org/
> 
> 
> 
> 
>From peterkirk AT qaya.org  Thu Sep 25 10:06:26 2003
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To: David P Donnelly <davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Leningrad Codex YHWH-Holem
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On 25/09/2003 06:41, David P Donnelly wrote:

> Concerning the holem being centered between
> the right side of the vav
> and the left side of the he
> in YHWH at Genesis 3:14 in the Leningrad Codex,
> Peter Kirk said
>  
> >>>
> This is the typical position of holam in the Leningrad codex,
> on any  word,
> not just the divine name,
> and before any letter,
> not just vav. 
>
> It  is a later convention to shift holam to the left when followed by a 
> silent vav and sometimes a silent alef,
> and to the right otherwise.
> >>>
> Dave asks Peter:
>  
> Isn't the holem shifted to the top right of the vav,
> when the holem is followed by a silent vav.
>  

Yes, this is the modern convention used in the printed BHS and most 
other texts. L, written nearly 1000 years ago, does not follow the 
modern convention.

> In Joshua 1:1 in the BHS text,
> the holem is placed at the top right of the vav in Yehowshua/Yehoshua.
>  
> The holem in effect follows the he,
> and I thought that this holem was followed by a  silent vav,

Yes.

> although by James Strong's convention,
> he appears to write the silent vav as the "w" in Yehowshua
> [e.g. Hebrew word #3091  
>  
> Doesn't the "w" in James Strong's transliteration of Hebrew word #3091,
> [by convention]
> indicate a silent vav??????????
>  

All I know about Strong's transliteration is that it is very misleading.

> The KJV translates Numbers 13:16 as Jehoshua [not Jehowshua] .
>  

And everywhere else (except 1Ch 7:27 "Jehoshuah") it renders the same 
Hebrew form as Joshua. All this proves is that KJV is inconsistent.

If  you want to know Hebrew, look at the Hebrew text and not  KJV or Strong.

-- 
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/