Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Peter Kirk" <Peter_R_Kirk AT hotmail.com>]

I wonder if one reason for this peculiarity is that the participle, in
for example "HaShem ha'oseh shalom...", is acting not as a noun but as
an adjective, and so takes the article because of the rule that an
adjective describing a definite noun (or pronoun?) takes the article. In
a case like hapod'cha, the adjective, because it is also a participle,
takes a personal suffix which is not normal with regular adjectives. But
I guess the rule that a noun cannot take both the article and a personal
suffix applies to nouns only and is not extended to adjectives.

Peter Kirk
peter.r.kirk AT ntlworld.com
http://web.onetel.net.uk/~peterkirk/
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason A. Hare [mailto:language_lover64801 AT yahoo.com]
> Sent: 29 November 2002 11:44
> To: Biblical Hebrew
> Subject: [b-hebrew] Re: hapodeinu / hapod'cha
> 
> Dear Mr. Heijmans,
> 
> The participle itself can indicate "who does..."  It is not necessary
to
> have a relative pronoun in this construction. However, the article
> functions not as a relative pronoun in this situation, but as a
definite
> marker. For example, if you say "the Lord who makes peace..." you say
> "HaShem ha'oseh shalom..." That doesn't really mean that "ha-" is a
> relative pronoun. Rather, it is "The Lord, the one who makes peace..."
> 
> I would still think (from what I've read anyway) that it is very weird
for
> an article to be attached to a partiple that is carrying a suffix
(even an
> objective suffix). They are automatically definite because of the
suffix,
> thus they do not need an article. I wish I had some resources to read
> about the peculiarities of actually finding forms like these that have
the
> article attached to a suffixed participle.
> 
> Regards,
> Jason
> 
> 
> > Dear Mr. Hare,
> >
> > In "ha-podenu" the "ha" is not the article, but the relative
pronoun.
> >
> > The "ha" here means "who", just as if it was written "asher". So
also in
> =
> > the
> > verse you qutoed from Dt.: "and the one _who_ is redeeming you". See
=
> > also
> > Ges.-Kautzsch paragraph 138 i .
> >
> > By the way, in the prayer you quoted, it occurs all the time:
ha-podenu,
> > ha-go'alenu, ha-nifra, ha-ose, ha-meshalem, etc. etc. In all these =
> > instances
> > it means "[He] who...".
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Shai Heijmans
> >
>