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b-hebrew - SV: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die

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  • From: "Thomas L. Thompson" <tlt AT teol.ku.dk>
  • To: "Thomas L. Thompson" <tlt AT teol.ku.dk>, 'Liz Fried' <lizfried AT umich.edu>, "'b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu'" <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: SV: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
  • Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:11:06 +0200




> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: Thomas L. Thompson
> Sendt: 22. august 2000 11:10
> Til: 'Liz Fried'
> Emne: SV: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
>
> Dear Liz,
> The snake was absolutely right. That is the role he plays in the story. My
> point was the quite limited one that Jubilees' efforts to lengthen the day
> gives us evidence to read Genesis 2,17 as implying that they would in fact
> die on that day.
>
> I also agree with you that the end of the story is patterned on the exile.
> How much of the story do you think implies that the garden is Jerusalem's
> or the temple's garden? This association becomes nearly explicit in the
> tower of Babel story.
>
> Thomas
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: Liz Fried [SMTP:lizfried AT umich.edu]
> Sendt: 21. august 2000 19:06
> Til: Biblical Hebrew
> Emne: RE: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
>
> The point is that the snake was right,
> not God. Their eyes were opened (3:7), and they did not die
> on the day they ate it as God said they would (2:17).
>
> Liz Fried
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Thomas L. Thompson [mailto:tlt AT teol.ku.dk]
> > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 11:43 AM
> > To: Biblical Hebrew
> > Subject: SV: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > > Fra: Thomas L. Thompson
> > > Sendt: 21. august 2000 17:38
> > > Til: 'Dave Washburn'
> > > Emne: SV: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
> > >
> > > Jubilees might help in this. The story in Genesis ends with
> > Adam living on
> > > and becoming the father of children outside the garden.
> > Jubilees addresses
> > > itself to the implications of Yahweh's words, that Adam will die
> on the
> > > day he eats of the tree. The author finds a solution to the
> seeming
> > > incoherence of 'you will surely die' by pointing out that in
> > Yahweh's eyes
> > > a thousand years is but a day. In God's eyes Adam does not live
> out that
> > > fateful day.
> > > Thomas
> > >
> > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > > Fra: Dave Washburn [SMTP:dwashbur AT nyx.net]
> > > Sendt: 21. august 2000 05:32
> > > Til: Biblical Hebrew
> > > Emne: Re: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > > > <Bill>
> > > > The literal of Gen 2:17 seems to be:
> > > >
> > > > ...dying thou shalt die...
> > > >
> > > > which is generally translated "thou shalt surely die"
> > > >
> > > > * is this a fairly certain translation? could it be taken
> > > unidiomatically?
> > >
> > > I'm not sure what you mean by "unidiomatically" since it's a
> > > common Hebrew idiom; "going you shall go," "dying you shall
> die,"
> > > "loving you shall love" etc. It's a Hebrew way of
> emphasizing the
> > > sureness of something: "this will most definitely happen" or
> "you
> > > will most certainly do this." We see a similar construction
> in
> > > Jonah 1 where the sailors "feared a great fear." As my
> first-year
> > > Hebrew teacher said so many many years ago, "feared a fear"
> is
> > > emphatic enough, but when you add "great" it probably means
> > > some of them had to go change their underwear. Using
> cognate
> > > forms like this was a "normal" (whatever that word means)
> way that
> > > Hebrew strengthened the force of something like "die."
> > >
> > > > * does the construct appear elsewhere in Scripture?
> > >
> > > All over the place.
> > >
> > > > * does anyone respectable champion another reading?
> > >
> > > Not that I am aware of. No one unrespectable that I've seen
> either
> > > ;-)
> > >
> > >
> > > Dave Washburn
> > > http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
> > > "Éist le glór Dé."
> > >
> > > ---
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> >
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> >
>
>
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