Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Thomas L. Thompson" <tlt AT teol.ku.dk>]

> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra:  Thomas L. Thompson 
> Sendt:        22. august 2000 11:10
> Til:  'Liz Fried'
> Emne: SV: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
> 
> Dear Liz,
> The snake was absolutely right. That is the role he plays in the story. My
> point was the quite limited one that Jubilees' efforts to lengthen the day
> gives us evidence to read Genesis 2,17 as implying that they would in fact
> die on that day.
> 
> I also agree with you that the end of the story is patterned on the exile.
> How much of the story do you think implies that the garden is Jerusalem's
> or the temple's garden? This association becomes nearly explicit in the
> tower of Babel story.
> 
> Thomas
>       -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>       Fra:    Liz Fried [SMTP:lizfried AT umich.edu]
>       Sendt:  21. august 2000 19:06
>       Til:    Biblical Hebrew
>       Emne:   RE: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
> 
>       The point is that the snake was right,
>       not God. Their eyes were opened (3:7), and they did not die
>       on the day they ate it as God said they would (2:17).
> 
>       Liz Fried
> 
>       > -----Original Message-----
>       > From: Thomas L. Thompson [mailto:tlt AT teol.ku.dk]
>       > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 11:43 AM
>       > To: Biblical Hebrew
>       > Subject: SV: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>       > > Fra:        Thomas L. Thompson
>       > > Sendt:      21. august 2000 17:38
>       > > Til:        'Dave Washburn'
>       > > Emne:       SV: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
>       > >
>       > > Jubilees might help in this. The story in Genesis ends with
>       > Adam living on
>       > > and becoming the father of children outside the garden.
>       > Jubilees addresses
>       > > itself to the implications of Yahweh's words, that Adam will die
> on the
>       > > day he eats of the tree. The author finds a solution to the
> seeming
>       > > incoherence of 'you will surely die' by pointing out that in
>       > Yahweh's eyes
>       > > a thousand years is but a day. In God's eyes Adam does not live
> out that
>       > > fateful day.
>       > > Thomas
>       > >
>       > >     -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>       > >     Fra:    Dave Washburn [SMTP:dwashbur AT nyx.net]
>       > >     Sendt:  21. august 2000 05:32
>       > >     Til:    Biblical Hebrew
>       > >     Emne:   Re: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
>       > >
>       > >     Bill,
>       > >     > <Bill>
>       > >     > The literal of Gen 2:17 seems to be:
>       > >     >
>       > >     > ...dying thou shalt die...
>       > >     >
>       > >     > which is generally translated "thou shalt surely die"
>       > >     >
>       > >     > * is this a fairly certain translation? could it be taken
>       > > unidiomatically?
>       > >
>       > >     I'm not sure what you mean by "unidiomatically" since it's a
>       > >     common Hebrew idiom; "going you shall go," "dying you shall
> die,"
>       > >     "loving you shall love" etc.  It's a Hebrew way of
> emphasizing the
>       > >     sureness of something: "this will most definitely happen" or
> "you
>       > >     will most certainly do this."  We see a similar construction
> in
>       > >     Jonah 1 where the sailors "feared a great fear."  As my
> first-year
>       > >     Hebrew teacher said so many many years ago, "feared a fear"
> is
>       > >     emphatic enough, but when you add "great" it probably means
>       > >     some of them had to go change their underwear.  Using
> cognate
>       > >     forms like this was a "normal" (whatever that word means)
> way that
>       > >     Hebrew strengthened the force of something like "die."
>       > >
>       > >     > * does the construct appear elsewhere in Scripture?
>       > >
>       > >     All over the place.
>       > >
>       > >     > * does anyone respectable champion another reading?
>       > >
>       > >     Not that I am aware of.  No one unrespectable that I've seen
> either
>       > >     ;-)
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >     Dave Washburn
>       > >     http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
>       > >     "Éist le glór Dé."
>       > >
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> 
> 
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