Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Niels Peter Lemche <npl AT teol.ku.dk>]

I think Peter Kirk answered to this already, but it seems that it missed the
list. I repost it.

NPL


> -----Original Message-----
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> Sent: Friday, 28 January, 2000 15:56
> To:   npl AT teol.ku.dk
> Subject:      Re: SV: Date of the Exodus (still shorter)
> 
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> From: Niels Peter Lemche <npl AT teol.ku.dk>
> To: 'Banyai Michael' <banyai AT t-online.de>
> Cc: "'b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu'" <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Subject: SV: Date of the Exodus (still shorter)
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:20:45 +0100
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0)
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> 
> It does not seem to be very difficult to understand, and why it should be
> ad
> hominem...please spell it to me, I cannot see it.
> 
> Again, instead of moving into a serious discussion, Mr. Banyai tries ti
> evade the issues by intrucing elements to it that have nothing to do with
> the essence of the question.
> 
> But to be serious, since it seems so difficult to understand: The Thera
> eruption happened arond the time proposed. I cannot recollect from recent
> discussions the exact date, and it has been moved a little to and fro,
> also
> depending on the evidence from Greenland. never mind, it resulted in a
> tsunami that hit Crete some hours later, but as far as I got it from some
> other mail, this was not the end of the Minoan civilization as imagined
> only
> a few years ago when people talked about a tsunami of a hundred meters;
> now
> it is down to something maneable, was it 10-30 m? What effect the tsunami
> according to the last mentioned calculation would have had in the Levant
> is
> questionable, it would probably hardly be noticeable. So to relate Thera
> to
> the crossing of the Yam Suf makes no sense (even with the giant tsunami of
> the past, its effect along the Levantine coast would be almost impossible
> to
> measure). 
> 
> But apart from all thse kinds of speculation, it demands a coincidence:
> Moses and his people turning up at the right spot at exactly the right
> moment..it's too much of a coincidence for a historian to be serious about
> it. So nothing ad hominem here, but certainly an argumentation that make
> the
> position of the opposite party look pretty, should we say unwarranted. If
> Mr
> Banyai think that this is ad hominem, he will probably consider any attack
> on his ideas 'ad hominem'.
> 
> NPL
> 
> 
> > ----------
> > Fra:        Banyai Michael[SMTP:banyai AT t-online.de]
> > Svar til:   Banyai Michael
> > Sendt:      28. januar 2000 01:00
> > Til:        Biblical Hebrew
> > Emne:       Date of the Exodus (still shorter)
> > 
> > Niels Peter Lemche wrote:
> > > and the nice millions of Israelites turned up exactly at the right
> > moment,
> > > what a coincidence, isn't it. And when they came to Jordan there was
> an
> > > eartquake at Adam making the river stop for a while so they could
> cross
> > > (this was actually put forward in seriousness about a hundred years
> ago
> > or
> > > so).
> > >
> > > I' am afraid that we do not in my business work with coincidences like
> > that.
> > >
> > > NPL
> > 
> > I read the message of Prof. Lemche a couple of times and tryed to 
> > understand its content. It was quite difficult but at last I realised,
> it 
> > was so far: Prof. Lemche outed me as the author of the famous 
> > London-underground grafitti "Moses was here". How naive from me to do
> such
> > 
> > a thing...
> > 
> > I appreciate however the scaled strategy of the discussion: first 
> > pretending epigraphic or else evidence and than going ad hominem.
> > 
> > He however knows very well, there are means to date the introduction of
> > the 
> > hebrew calendar, by means of sothic calculation in the period about 1622
> 
> > BC. The data offered by Judges bring us also as far.
> > 
> > Banyai Michael
> > Leonberg
> > Banyai AT t-online.de
> > 
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: npl AT teol.ku.dk
> > To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> > $subst('Email.Unsub')
> > To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.
> > 
> 
> ---
> 
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> 2000 05:20:27 -0500
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> klin.oit.unc.edu>
> From: Niels Peter Lemche <npl AT teol.ku.dk>
> To: Biblical Hebrew <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Cc: "'b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu'" <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Subject: SV: Date of the Exodus (still shorter)
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:20:45 +0100
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain
> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:$subst('Email.Unsub')>
> Reply-To: Niels Peter Lemche <npl AT teol.ku.dk>
> Precedence: bulk
> 
> It does not seem to be very difficult to understand, and why it should be
> ad
> hominem...please spell it to me, I cannot see it.
> 
> Again, instead of moving into a serious discussion, Mr. Banyai tries ti
> evade the issues by intrucing elements to it that have nothing to do with
> the essence of the question.
> 
> But to be serious, since it seems so difficult to understand: The Thera
> eruption happened arond the time proposed. I cannot recollect from recent
> discussions the exact date, and it has been moved a little to and fro,
> also
> depending on the evidence from Greenland. never mind, it resulted in a
> tsunami that hit Crete some hours later, but as far as I got it from some
> other mail, this was not the end of the Minoan civilization as imagined
> only
> a few years ago when people talked about a tsunami of a hundred meters;
> now
> it is down to something maneable, was it 10-30 m? What effect the tsunami
> according to the last mentioned calculation would have had in the Levant
> is
> questionable, it would probably hardly be noticeable. So to relate Thera
> to
> the crossing of the Yam Suf makes no sense (even with the giant tsunami of
> the past, its effect along the Levantine coast would be almost impossible
> to
> measure). 
> 
> But apart from all thse kinds of speculation, it demands a coincidence:
> Moses and his people turning up at the right spot at exactly the right
> moment..it's too much of a coincidence for a historian to be serious about
> it. So nothing ad hominem here, but certainly an argumentation that make
> the
> position of the opposite party look pretty, should we say unwarranted. If
> Mr
> Banyai think that this is ad hominem, he will probably consider any attack
> on his ideas 'ad hominem'.
> 
> NPL
> 
> 
> > ----------
> > Fra:        Banyai Michael[SMTP:banyai AT t-online.de]
> > Svar til:   Banyai Michael
> > Sendt:      28. januar 2000 01:00
> > Til:        Biblical Hebrew
> > Emne:       Date of the Exodus (still shorter)
> > 
> > Niels Peter Lemche wrote:
> > > and the nice millions of Israelites turned up exactly at the right
> > moment,
> > > what a coincidence, isn't it. And when they came to Jordan there was
> an
> > > eartquake at Adam making the river stop for a while so they could
> cross
> > > (this was actually put forward in seriousness about a hundred years
> ago
> > or
> > > so).
> > >
> > > I' am afraid that we do not in my business work with coincidences like
> > that.
> > >
> > > NPL
> > 
> > I read the message of Prof. Lemche a couple of times and tryed to 
> > understand its content. It was quite difficult but at last I realised,
> it 
> > was so far: Prof. Lemche outed me as the author of the famous 
> > London-underground grafitti "Moses was here". How naive from me to do
> such
> > 
> > a thing...
> > 
> > I appreciate however the scaled strategy of the discussion: first 
> > pretending epigraphic or else evidence and than going ad hominem.
> > 
> > He however knows very well, there are means to date the introduction of
> > the 
> > hebrew calendar, by means of sothic calculation in the period about 1622
> 
> > BC. The data offered by Judges bring us also as far.
> > 
> > Banyai Michael
> > Leonberg
> > Banyai AT t-online.de
> > 
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: npl AT teol.ku.dk
> > To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> > $subst('Email.Unsub')
> > To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.
> > 
> 
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as:
> frank.matheus AT planet-interkom.de
> To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> $subst('Email.Unsub')
> To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.