Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Paul Zellmer <zellmer AT cag.pworld.net.ph>]

Rolf,

Please forgive me for quoting the entire post, including the excerpt from 
your post a
couple times removed.  I felt it was necessary to keep all this to allow the 
sense to
continue to come through.

Rolf Furuli wrote:

> >Rolf Furuli wrote:
> >
> >> The fact that 12 per cent of the weqatals with penultimate stress do not
> >> have a future meaning and that 36 per cent of the weqatals with 
> >> penultimate
> >> stress have future meaning accords with Dave's suggestions above.
> >
> >Hold it, Rolf.  Are you trying to say that stress is a morphological or
> >syntactical
> >feature in Hebrew?  Isn't stress determined by the lexical form of the
> >word in this
> >language?  Are there any pairs where the same word is used in one place in
> >a future
> >sense (in your determination) and in a past sense (again, in your
> >determination), and
> >stress is different?
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >--
> >Paul and Dee Zellmer, Jimmy Guingab, Geoffrey Beltran
> >Ibanag Translation Project
> >Cabagan, Philippines
> >
> >zellmer AT faith.edu.ph
>
> Dear Paul,

> Stress can be phonemic in Hebrew (e.g. BANU' - they built, BA'NU - in us).

True, *phonemic*.  But your post was suggesting (or passing on another's 
suggestion)
that it is *morphemic*.

> Stress is not necessarily determined by the lexical form of a word.  In
> most cases of weqatal with future meaning, stress is ultimate while we
> would have expected penultimate stress.
>

If you don't have minimal pairs, then how about clear examples where you 
claim this
phenomenon exists.  I'm not doubting you; I'm just asking you to help educate 
me a
bit.

> Different stress, similar meaning:
>
> Ezek 20:41 WE:NIQDA$TI,  ultimate stress, future meaning
> Ezek 28:22,25 WE:NIQDA$TI,  penultimate stress, future meaning
>
> Ezek 5:16  WE:$FBARTI, ultimate stress, future meaning (NB HFYU  with
> future meaning)
> Ezek 14:13 WE:$FBARTI, penultimate stress, future meaning
>
> Similar stress, different meaning:
>
> 1 Sam 3.13 WE:HIGGADTI, penultimate stress, future meaning
> Is 44:8    WE:HIGGADTI, penultimate stress, past meaning
>
> Gen 26:10 WE:HEBETF, ultimate stress, past meaning
> Gen 27:10 WE:HEBETF, ultimate stress, future meaning
>
> 1 Chr 17:8 WE:(FSITI, penultimate stress, past meaning
> Esek 37:14  WE:(FSITI, penultimate stress, future perfect meaning (after
> qatal with same meaning)
> Esek 37:22 WE:(FSITI, penultimate stress, future meaning
>

For you to show what you claim, though, wouldn't you want cases where you have
*different* stress with *different* meaning?  From these short lists, I would 
say that
stress seems to not have any clear significance on meaning.

> Regards
> Rolf
>

And to you,

Paul
--
Paul and Dee Zellmer, Jimmy Guingab, Geoffrey Beltran
Ibanag Translation Project
Cabagan, Philippines

zellmer AT faith.edu.ph