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  • From: Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>, europeanpermaculturenetwork@googlegroups.com, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org>, Dennis Scott <dennis@djscott.co.nz>, Andy Goldring <andyg@permaculture.org.uk>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] QUESTIONS .. of corruption etc etc
  • Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 06:16:38 +1300

Yes good point Joel...there are many integrating overlapping dynamics that
come into the whole world of PC for it is as Mollison and Holhgren have
elucidated a whole world view of a Permanent Culture that stemed from
Permanent Agriculture knowing as Kirkpatrick Sale informed us all
civilisations have risen and fallen on its agriculture.

One challenge I have seen for some time is how as a global fraternity can
we work more cohesively as a global community. I feel there are many many
challenging challenges for all of us to evolve into. The species man today
is still a very uncivilised species. So we do have a long way to evolve
before we can fully respect and exercise the ethics we claim to be ours.
Care for the Earth, Care for People and Distribute the Surplus.

Perhaps like Scott who has seemingly become more and more frustrated over
the years with the serious decline in PC activities throughout the teaching
of the original doctrines seeing it watered down considerably we do need a
renaissance of some form. How do we go about this ? Perhaps we all turn up
to IPC12 wherever it has been confirmed ?? India is it Andy ? and strongly
promote this concern. But, before this event we must promote it amongst
ourselves to arrive at IPC12 with a complete a dossier as is possible to
offer a way out of the mire. Why, where, when, who, how ?

A small group of us who came out the end of the seven series of conferences
for European Permaculture Teachers developed this thinking to create The
Permaculture College of Europe. As already mentioned this could evolve into
an international network through Continental Regions. Is that a potential
for such structural direction ? Or what structural direction could the
global PC network sustain and respect ? There is a faction that prefers
structurelessness.....they probably have no spine ? I like the anology of
the structure of a tree..which is cornerstone and centrepiece to the great
well used PC symbol. That symbol, also well utilised in many of the
elements through the Designers Manual, incorporates many cycles of energy
and flow.

Some thinking and development to do

Steve Hart

On 21 December 2015 at 03:34, Joel Glanzberg <patternmind@gmail.com> wrote:

> Was simply trying to respond to one of Scott's thoughts Steve, as that was
> the part to which I thought I could usefully respond.
>
> Personally, as I have said elsewhere I do not think that PC is about
> landuse, but about learning from the land how to shift living systems
> including everything that humans do. So instead of focusing on research
> around landuse I am working on how to track the patterns of larger systems
> and shift them, because as we all know no matter how many PC paradises we
> create they will isolated non-smoking tables in a smoking restaurant.
> much love,
> Joel
>
> On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > So Joel...what elements of this book fit the subject title on this
> debate ?
> > Or how can we reinterpret it as Scott mentions ?...to avoid going
> > completely tangentially offf topic ?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > On 20 December 2015 at 16:45, Joel Glanzberg <patternmind@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Scott have you seen Barry Lopez's book Home Ground?
> > >
> http://www.amazon.com/Home-Ground-Guide-American-Landscape/dp/1595341757
> > > All about some of what you are asking about...a lexicon defining all of
> > the
> > > words you cited and more, by many autors.
> > >
> > > Joel
> > >
> > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks for the video Steve. These are the questions that we must
> > answer
> > > > in permaculture or we are pissing up a rope! All of the deceit
> > mentioned
> > > > in this presentation exist in permaculture and in may cases in the
> > > > leadership or “stars” of permaculture, which leads me to question is
> > the
> > > > word salvageable or should we move on with a better and more true
> model
> > > of
> > > > change? I think all the elements exist in permaculture as a design
> > > process
> > > > but they have been so compromised that we must invent a new language
> > and
> > > > perhaps a new title for what we are about.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I often speak of this lack of language in describing pattern. We
> have
> > > > lost so much descriptive language that we cannot accurately describe
> > our
> > > > environment anymore. Branching patterns of moving water is hard
> > pressed
> > > to
> > > > name each branch. What is the real difference between a rill, brook,
> > > > stream, rivulet, river, estuary, and... and.. we have a supposed six
> > > orders
> > > > and can only begin to name each of them in a clear and distinctive
> way.
> > > > The same with tree branching. If we are unable to succinctly
> describe
> > > our
> > > > environment can we really see it?? I don’t think so.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am currently writing a book called “The Dharma of Permaculture” in
> > > which
> > > > I am using the ethics and natural principals as the foundation of a
> > true
> > > > dharma of what we are seeking. This is done in an ashram in Costa
> Rica
> > > > where I managed to get a “writers” grant. My pay back is to
> meditate
> > > > every morning at 4 AM and afternoon at 5:00PM. My penance is being
> > > > vegetarian for months on end. Fortunately I am able to write in this
> > > > solitude and could not in my home environment. I’m a hundred pages
> in
> > > and
> > > > hope I don’t have to start all over as I think through and learn more
> > > about
> > > > the Hindu view of the world and cosmology.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wishing you well and thanks for keeping me in the loop.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Namaste,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Scott Pittman
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Steve Hart [mailto:stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2015 1:48
> > > > To: Leo Bakx; pirn@permaculture.org.uk
> > > > Cc: permaculture; europeanpermaculturenetwork@googlegroups.com;
> Scott
> > > > Pittman
> > > > Subject: Re: QUESTIONS .. of corruption etc etc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yeah Leo..couldn't agree anymore. Love Buckies saying that Scott
> > Pittman
> > > > has used on his signature byline
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ""To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
> > > > obsolete"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But my argument is more than just being involved in this very
> paradigm
> > > > that most of us are. It is more about being aware of how the existing
> > > > paradigm is driving the collapse over the horizon and how we need to
> be
> > > > aware of the many policies driving it. The key one being infiltration
> > and
> > > > manipulation of our new paradigm. Then for us to be able to identify
> > > these
> > > > and the persons that have been planted or bribed who are rubbing
> > > shoulders
> > > > with us and even more than that.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Some good links now exist to allow us to begin looking into this
> world
> > > > here's but one
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwd-yNHQ7Fs <
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwd-yNHQ7Fs&feature=em-subs_digest>
> > > > &feature=em-subs_digest
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm keen to see more..obviously when we connect into Youtube there
> are
> > > > dozens of like links that appear in the right hand collumn menu.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Steve Hart
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 15 December 2015 at 21:35, Leo Bakx <leo@aardwerk.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Buckmister Fuller comes to mind: "The function of what I call design
> > > > science is to solve problems by introducing into the environment new
> > > > artifacts, the availability of which will induce their spontaneous
> > > > employment by humans and thus, coincidentally, cause humans to
> abandon
> > > > their previous problem-producing behaviors and devices. For example,
> > when
> > > > humans have a vital need to cross the roaring rapids of a river, as a
> > > > design scientist I would design them a bridge, causing them, I am
> > sure,
> > > to
> > > > abandon spontaneously and forever the risking of their lives by
> trying
> > to
> > > > swim to the other shore."
> > > > (1983, R. Buckminster Fuller, Cosmography)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In other words: design something better and compelling to seduce
> people
> > > to
> > > > a better behavior.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > IMHO, perhaps clinical pathological cases excepted, greed is the fear
> > of
> > > > missing out on something. "dog eat dog mentality for survival",
> > > > paraphrasing the expression mistakenly attributed to Darwin "survival
> > of
> > > > the fittest" is a convenient myth for people in the fear-industry.
> > Ideas
> > > > are powerful, but only to the extend that you let them be. If
> > > permaculture
> > > > is about the practice of radical imagination (2014, Permaculture
> > Design:
> > > On
> > > > the Practice of Radical Imagination, Katja Rothe) then imagine this:
> > the
> > > > most effective solution (in systems thinking at least) is to
> transcend
> > > > models, paradigms, philosophies or whatever you want to call it, let
> go
> > > and
> > > > just go with the flow of Life, the universe and Everything (1982,
> > Douglas
> > > > Adams).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > l:-)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 14 dec 2015, at 17:54, Steve Hart wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Its time to consider but not to get paranoid and go over the top and
> > fall
> > > > apart but worthy to start considering.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As the world moves rapidly to many forms of collapse which should be
> > > > evident by now. How do we as a species cope with this. And, how does
> > the
> > > > Permaculture fraternity cope with it ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My observation suggests that the greed factor mixed with a dog eat
> dog
> > > > mentality for survival for oneself is becoming more and more
> apparent.
> > > > Overlay this with the corporate agendas driven by the 1% who dictate
> > the
> > > > worlds resources and business streams who also manipulate every other
> > > > stream of society they have a well developed plan in locking masses
> > into
> > > > the ferriswheel. Its easy to lock up CEOs with huge salaries and then
> > > > dictate their entire modus operandi. They follow this pattern with
> the
> > > > senior management tiers, who are all aspiring CEOs for they all want
> to
> > > > plant their face into that trough as well. Then there are countless
> > > middle
> > > > managers who also aspire to such greatness and salaries. We all know
> > > > scientists and engineers can be bought. Politicians likewise.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So what of the people within the world of Permaculture ? One could
> > assume
> > > > that due to its rapidly rising popularity and its potential success
> in
> > > > countering the meglamaniac activity of the corporate 1% (C1) and
> their
> > > > countless slaves Permaculture must be a prime sitting duck to be
> > > > infiltrated and managed to manipulate for the goals and objectives of
> > the
> > > > C1.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How easily could this be done ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We must know by now as Mollison always told us that operating on
> > funding
> > > > and grants is like living on a poison carrot. There is never any
> > > > sustainability or security in the strategy. It seems that many many
> > > > different organisations in our diverse networks search out and expect
> > > their
> > > > survival and longevity their lifeline to be propped up and supported
> by
> > > > such hand-outs. A fatal flaw at best. Mollison also spoke of
> > sustainable
> > > > business enterprise and how imperative it was to recognise true
> > > > sustainability.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps we could open this subject up for debate and see where we
> could
> > > > evolve it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We haven't seen a good debate on this channel for awhile. Something
> to
> > > > ponder over the dearth of xmas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Have a good one
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Kia ora
> > > >
> > > > Picture <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://mail.google.com/mail/c/u/0/photos/public/AIbEiAIAAABECLOFmezy0frjuQEiC3ZjYXJkX3Bob3RvKigwNWNmOTFiNTcwZjMwOWRhOTAwYmIyODlhODc0ODRlOWNkNjExMTE0MAGFlNvlojdIGY9DLJ-s3muPw43XfQ
> > > > >
> > > > Steve Hart
> > > > Ecology Architect
> > > >
> > > > Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> > > > Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape
> > Architecture
> > > > and Systems Ecology.​
> > > > Skype: tipenemanawa
> > > >
> > > > Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Permaculture Global Design:
> > > >
> > > > www.permacultureglobaldesign.org <
> > > http://www.permacultureglobaldesign.org/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Permaculture College of Europe.
> > > >
> > > > www.permaculturecollege.eu <http://www.permaculturecollege.eu/>
> > > >
> > > > <https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart>
> > > > https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and
> Solutions.
> > > >
> > > > www.permaculturepartnerships.com <
> > > http://www.permaculturepartnerships.com/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Kia ora
> > > >
> > > > Picture <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://mail.google.com/mail/c/u/0/photos/public/AIbEiAIAAABECLOFmezy0frjuQEiC3ZjYXJkX3Bob3RvKigwNWNmOTFiNTcwZjMwOWRhOTAwYmIyODlhODc0ODRlOWNkNjExMTE0MAGFlNvlojdIGY9DLJ-s3muPw43XfQ
> > > > >
> > > > Steve Hart
> > > > Ecology Architect
> > > >
> > > > Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> > > > Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape
> > Architecture
> > > > and Systems Ecology.​
> > > > Skype: tipenemanawa
> > > >
> > > > Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Permaculture Global Design:
> > > >
> > > > www.permacultureglobaldesign.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Permaculture College of Europe.
> > > >
> > > > www.permaculturecollege.eu
> > > >
> > > > <https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart>
> > > > https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and
> Solutions.
> > > >
> > > > www.permaculturepartnerships.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > permaculture mailing list
> > > > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > > >
> > > permaculture mailing list
> > > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kia ora
> >
> > [image: Picture]
> > *Steve Hart*
> > *Ecology Architect*
> > *Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> > Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> > and Systems Ecology.​*
> > Skype: tipenemanawa
> > Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
> >
> > Permaculture Global Design:
> > www.permacultureglobaldesign.org
> >
> > The Permaculture College of Europe.
> > www.permaculturecollege.eu
> > https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
> >
> > GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
> > www.permaculturepartnerships.com
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>



--
Kia ora

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
*Ecology Architect*
*Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology.​*
Skype: tipenemanawa
Phone: +64 220 75 62 11

Permaculture Global Design:
www.permacultureglobaldesign.org

The Permaculture College of Europe.
www.permaculturecollege.eu
https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart

GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
www.permaculturepartnerships.com




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