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  • From: Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] FW: New rocket mass heater kickstarter
  • Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 09:49:34 +1300

Thanks William...the debate is expanding nicely. Certainly this is my
preference. I personally as already stated would like to keep all debate,
all comment at all levels open and out there, without limiting any comment
or silencing anyone. As you say we all have the ability to press delete or
unsubscribe or not subscribe at all. But if issues like this and many more
from the list of people you mention Hemenway Lawton, Smits, Korn et al and
there is probably as many more that I could add to the list for various
reasons and viewpoints. If we are to progress on evolving a "People Care"
ethic how can we do this if such communication is shut down and locked away
in a cupboard with all the other ghosts. Surely all of us, well maybe most,
I expect take comments at face value and it is not until we have our own
first hand experiences that issues are reinforced to either confirm deny or
alter ones perceptions on someones characteristics and traits. Although in
saying that many of us also respond on hearsay. We are an interesting
species made of of every unique personality trait imaginable. So lets hear
more and learn from it all. After all we have a good satisfaction of the
ethic Earth Care and Share of Surplus but in reality we are a long long way
from People Care. But hey, its all work in progress and this open
communication is worthy in advancing such positively..Steve Hart IMO

On 13 March 2015 at 09:13, June Ipers <junipers@zoho.com> wrote:

> Wow.
> I really didn't expect to see posts like these left unmoderated, but I
> suppose when one of the moderators is one of the people spewing hate, I
> guess this list just tolerates uncivil behavior.
>
> I'd like to echo Chris's thoughts on this matter and encourage people to
> wash their dirty laundry in private. I personally don't want to have it.
>
> I currently help out on the Permie forums as a moderator and have been a
> member since 2010, and I can assure people that we have a zero-tolerance
> for this kind of bad behavior, it's called the "be nice" rule. It usually
> makes unkind people angry at us for shushing them. So be it.
>
> As for other sentiments of Paul's forays into capitalism by way of
> permaculture, I would urge people to consider that:
>
> 1) We live in capitalism. Expecting other people to be pure and untouched
> by capitalism gets us nowhere. If encouraging people to be millionaires
> while regenerating vast swaths of land with permaculture design isn't your
> thing, great. Nobody is forcing you to hang out with people who do.
> 2) Other people have different strategies for making the world a better
> place. While I personally do not subscribe to 100% of what Paul has to
> offer, I respect his right to voice that opinion and I feel he is moved by
> the desire to do good.
> 3) The results of Permies have been positive. More people being introduced
> to permaculture. More people getting quality advice about how to move
> forward their own permaculture projects, and a forum where people don't
> feel gang-raped just for posting (see other forums around the web).
> Inasmuch as this can be attributed to Paul Wheaton's "empire building", I
> believe he deserves people's respect.
> 4) Paul is active in supporting anything that moves permaculture forward.
> This is of course infused by what he believes is the "best" of
> permaculture. Just off the top of my head this would include: Mark Shepard,
> Toby Hemenway, Willie Smits, Geoff Lawton, Permaculture Voices, Fukuoka and
> Larry Korn. So....if we are going to banish Paul from the permaculture
> earth, out with him goes a huge megaphone for all those great things we all
> agree are cool. Thanks for that!
>
> As for the original qualm that set this all in motion, the forum mass
> mailing:
> Usually 99.9% of Paul's mass messages go to 2 *opt-in* newsletters, one is
> daily-ish. The other happens hardly ever. Then, once in a blue moon there
> is a mass mail to forum users. The official policy on mass mailing to forum
> users is that anyone can opt out, so if Scott didn't want to receive that
> e-mail, it was his fault for not opting out previously.
>
> William
>
>
>
>
> On 03/12/2015 06:17 PM, Lawrence London wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Steve Hart <
>> stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Scott....is this coming from the same energy that was exposed
>>> some
>>> time ago about a previous campaign where people lost out ?
>>>
>>> Exactly the same source, Paul Wheaton. You should see that one in
>> action in
>> a video about, get this, Wheaton Labs;
>> big fat pompous slob now introducing himself as just "Paul", probably name
>> change to protect the guilty. He has finally arrived, #2 permaculture used
>> car salesman, the odious vlad #1. All working against everything we
>> believe
>> to be real,
>> authentic and worthwhile in permaculture. Wheaton is trying to 1) make
>> lots
>> of money off permaculture and fools 2) create a faux permaculture
>> movement
>> 3) work against everyone we respect in the permaculture movement 4) apply
>> witheringly horrible and odious ayn rand philosophy to the permaculture
>> movement ["help Paul with his conspiracy to rule the world"].
>>
>> Enough of that garbage
>>
>> Steve Hart
>>>
>>> On 13 March 2015 at 05:02, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> This came to my email unsolicited with no link to unsubscribe. I have a
>>>> deep suspicion of anyone who keeps piling on the goodies to sell me
>>>> something. I'm surprised there is no Batman mask and a Green Lantern
>>>>
>>> ring.
>>>
>>>> This is the most odious form of capitalism and it contaminates
>>>> permaculture.
>>>>
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> "To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
>>>> obsolete" Buckminster Fuller
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: paul wheaton [mailto:forums@permies.com]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 4:37 PM
>>>> To: paul wheaton
>>>> Subject: New rocket mass heater kickstarter
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> You are getting this email because you are registered for the forums at
>>>> permies.com. I think it has been about a year since I have sent you all
>>>>
>>> an
>>>
>>>> email!
>>>>
>>>> I have a kickstarter that has an update for my rocket mass heater DVDs.
>>>>
>>> Not
>>>
>>>> only are the new DVDs professionally videoed with professional sound,
>>>>
>>> but I
>>>
>>>> want to make sure that my kickstarter supporters get FAR more goodies
>>>>
>>> than
>>>
>>>> the people that get into this stuff later.
>>>>
>>>> For this new kickstarter I've made it so that for just $1 you get:
>>>>
>>>> - a micro documentary about rocket mass heaters
>>>> - 19 podcasts about rocket mass heaters (25 hours)
>>>> - (optional) public thanks
>>>>
>>>> For $2 you get that plus:
>>>>
>>>> - Full "how to plans" for the beautiful "bonny" rocket mass heater
>>>> (currently selling for $25)
>>>> - The Rocket Mass Heater in a Greenhouse plans (not yet released)
>>>> - The Permaculture Playing Cards eBook
>>>> - Podcasts 201-280
>>>>
>>>> For $3 you get that plus:
>>>>
>>>> - pdf "3 Stoves for $3 or Less"
>>>> - album "Permaculture: A Rhymer's Manual" by Formidable Vegetable
>>>>
>>>> At $5 you get that plus:
>>>>
>>>> - The streaming version of the full DVD "Fire Science"
>>>> - Access to the permies.com secret inner circle
>>>>
>>>> And more and more and more until you can get all four of the full
>>>> length
>>>> DVDs as a download (plus everything listed above) for $40.
>>>>
>>>> If nothing else, please check out the video for this - I think it turned
>>>> out
>>>> really good!
>>>>
>>>> The thread about it at permies, complete with video, pictures, comments
>>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>>> more:
>>>>
>>>> http://permies.com/t/44266
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sign up for my daily-ish email, or my devious plots for world
>>>> domination: http://richsoil.com/email
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> sent to forum user scott@permaculture.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
>>>> http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com
>>>> Google message archive search:
>>>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
>>>> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
>>>> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
>>>> http://www.ipermie.net
>>>> Avant Geared https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
>>>> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
>>>> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
>>>> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
>>>> while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with
>>>> integrated
>>>> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
>>>> nature-compatible
>>>> human habitat --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kia ora
>>>
>>> [image: Picture]
>>> *Steve Hart*
>>> *Ecology Architect*
>>> *Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
>>> Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
>>> and Systems Ecology.​*
>>> Skype: tipenemanawa
>>> Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
>>> Permaculture Global Design:
>>> www.permacultureglobaldesign.org
>>> The Permaculture College of Europe.
>>> www.permaculturecollege.eu
>>> GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
>>> www.permaculturepartnerships.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> permaculture mailing list
>>> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list
>>> maintenance:
>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>>> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
>>> message archive mirrors:
>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/permaculturelist
>>> http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
>>> http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com
>>> Google message archive search:
>>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
>>> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
>>> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
>>> http://www.ipermie.net
>>> Avant Geared https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
>>> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
>>> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
>>> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
>>> while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with integrated
>>> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
>>> nature-compatible
>>> human habitat --
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list
> maintenance:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
> message archive mirrors:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/permaculturelist
> http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
> http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> http://www.ipermie.net
> Avant Geared https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with integrated
> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> nature-compatible
> human habitat --
>



--
Kia ora

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
*Ecology Architect*
*Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology.​*
Skype: tipenemanawa
Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
Permaculture Global Design:
www.permacultureglobaldesign.org
The Permaculture College of Europe.
www.permaculturecollege.eu
GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
www.permaculturepartnerships.com




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