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  • From: Bob Waldrop <bob@bobwaldrop.net>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] ZOO ?
  • Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 12:12:25 -0500

I vote for Toby on this. a thing is what it is, as they say, and while I am not an afficianado of the Zone 00 concept, I had not thought of the interior state of the designer AND the clients (if designing for someone else) as a sector per se. That I think is a really useful concept.

Bob Waldrop, Okie City

PS. Allow me to once more announce my permaculture workshop on local food systems in Denver, August 8-9.
https://www.facebook.com/events/658163574267951/


On 7/7/2014 12:06 PM, Toby Hemenway wrote:
Elizabeth's essay, which is beautiful and compelling, also illustrates my point
perfectly. Zone Zero in her use is not a zone and is not used to design with like any
zone. It's just a word to mean "the inner state of the designer" that has
nothing to do with zones. She, nor anyone else I've ever seen, has used it as a zone
that can have elements placed in it or be arranged with respect to frequency of use, or
has any thing else in common with zones. For the 90th time, I am not arguing that
personal work is unimportant. I'm arguing that Zone 0 is a dumb term for it.

Steve, I'm surprised (okay, not really, given your general orneriness) at
your crack about who appointed me god. You repeatedly criticize that
permaculture is being weakened and watered down, and zone 0 is a perfect
example--I would have thought you glad to see someone else is concerned about
standards and would support it instead of throwing snark (and who appointed
you god to do so?). We're all gods in permaculture--that is, this is a system
that is regulated from inside, and it's up to each of us to try to keep the
standards high.
Toby
http://patternliteracy.com


On Jul 7, 2014, at 6:05 AM, mIEKAL aND <qazingulaza@gmail.com> wrote:

My first wife, who made her living as a yoga teacher and a teacher of
improvisation in the arts, used the idea of Zone Zero constantly in her
classes and teaching. Here's an essay she wrote about Zone Zero that was
widely circulated in the mid 90s.

http://dreamtimevillage.org/articles/taking_off_zone_zero.html

I should qualify this post by saying she was an anarchist and was never
interested in Permaculture with a capital. Sadly for all of us, she died
suddenly of pancreatic cancer in 2004.

~mIEKAL


On Jul 7, 2014, at 1:08 AM, Steve Hart wrote:

ZONE 00...I too have a degree of disquiet about Z00....as Mollison
said...it was never part of the curriculum...but hey try and tell that to
the thousands out there who are seriously committed to this sector. So
perhaps the problem is the solution...work with it not against it. After
all there are a lot of people, more every day it seems, that need this
designing or often redesigning. A bit like reinventing ? Often too great a
Design Challenge.

Like Biodynamics...Mollison said ..ahh thatsFairies at the bottom of the
garden shit...but when one actually takes the time to scratch the surface
and explore the deeper corridors there we see tremendous opportunity and
value not wise to ignore.

Besides who invited you Toby to be the god in " cleaning up ambiguities and
logical inconsistencies that weaken permaculture terminology" ? Perhaps
better time spent on cleaning up all the standards or lack of them as per
Scott Pittman's recent podcast. God bless you...Steve Hart


On 6 July 2014 22:57, Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com> wrote:

I've posted some thoughts on why I think zone 00 as the state of the
designer's mind is a bad term.

It's at:

http://www.patternliteracy.com/816-zone-00-right-intentions-wrong-term

Zone 00: Right Intentions, Wrong Term

"One of my pet projects is to clean up the ambiguities and logical
inconsistencies that weaken permaculture terminology. Today I take aim at
the term Zone 00, used to mean either the designer or user of a
permaculture design, or their inner state. It’s a concept spawned by good
intentions, but calling it a zone is logically inconsistent, redundant, and
worst of all, has no design use. The designer’s mind is a crucial
influence, but it’s not a zone. If it’s an influence on a design, that
makes it a sector, right? (If you just slapped your forehead and said
“Doh!” then you need read no further.) So let’s stop using the term zone
00."

Enjoy!

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com


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