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  • From: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] ZOO ?
  • Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 10:06:20 -0700

Elizabeth's essay, which is beautiful and compelling, also illustrates my
point perfectly. Zone Zero in her use is not a zone and is not used to design
with like any zone. It's just a word to mean "the inner state of the
designer" that has nothing to do with zones. She, nor anyone else I've ever
seen, has used it as a zone that can have elements placed in it or be
arranged with respect to frequency of use, or has any thing else in common
with zones. For the 90th time, I am not arguing that personal work is
unimportant. I'm arguing that Zone 0 is a dumb term for it.

Steve, I'm surprised (okay, not really, given your general orneriness) at
your crack about who appointed me god. You repeatedly criticize that
permaculture is being weakened and watered down, and zone 0 is a perfect
example--I would have thought you glad to see someone else is concerned about
standards and would support it instead of throwing snark (and who appointed
you god to do so?). We're all gods in permaculture--that is, this is a system
that is regulated from inside, and it's up to each of us to try to keep the
standards high.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com


On Jul 7, 2014, at 6:05 AM, mIEKAL aND <qazingulaza@gmail.com> wrote:

> My first wife, who made her living as a yoga teacher and a teacher of
> improvisation in the arts, used the idea of Zone Zero constantly in her
> classes and teaching. Here's an essay she wrote about Zone Zero that was
> widely circulated in the mid 90s.
>
> http://dreamtimevillage.org/articles/taking_off_zone_zero.html
>
> I should qualify this post by saying she was an anarchist and was never
> interested in Permaculture with a capital. Sadly for all of us, she died
> suddenly of pancreatic cancer in 2004.
>
> ~mIEKAL
>
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 1:08 AM, Steve Hart wrote:
>
>> ZONE 00...I too have a degree of disquiet about Z00....as Mollison
>> said...it was never part of the curriculum...but hey try and tell that to
>> the thousands out there who are seriously committed to this sector. So
>> perhaps the problem is the solution...work with it not against it. After
>> all there are a lot of people, more every day it seems, that need this
>> designing or often redesigning. A bit like reinventing ? Often too great a
>> Design Challenge.
>>
>> Like Biodynamics...Mollison said ..ahh thatsFairies at the bottom of the
>> garden shit...but when one actually takes the time to scratch the surface
>> and explore the deeper corridors there we see tremendous opportunity and
>> value not wise to ignore.
>>
>> Besides who invited you Toby to be the god in " cleaning up ambiguities and
>> logical inconsistencies that weaken permaculture terminology" ? Perhaps
>> better time spent on cleaning up all the standards or lack of them as per
>> Scott Pittman's recent podcast. God bless you...Steve Hart
>>
>>
>> On 6 July 2014 22:57, Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I've posted some thoughts on why I think zone 00 as the state of the
>>> designer's mind is a bad term.
>>>
>>> It's at:
>>>
>>> http://www.patternliteracy.com/816-zone-00-right-intentions-wrong-term
>>>
>>> Zone 00: Right Intentions, Wrong Term
>>>
>>> "One of my pet projects is to clean up the ambiguities and logical
>>> inconsistencies that weaken permaculture terminology. Today I take aim at
>>> the term Zone 00, used to mean either the designer or user of a
>>> permaculture design, or their inner state. It’s a concept spawned by good
>>> intentions, but calling it a zone is logically inconsistent, redundant,
>>> and
>>> worst of all, has no design use. The designer’s mind is a crucial
>>> influence, but it’s not a zone. If it’s an influence on a design, that
>>> makes it a sector, right? (If you just slapped your forehead and said
>>> “Doh!” then you need read no further.) So let’s stop using the term zone
>>> 00."
>>>
>>> Enjoy!
>>>
>>> Toby
>>> http://patternliteracy.com
>>>
>>>
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>>> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
>>> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
>>> http://www.ipermie.net
>>> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
>>> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
>>> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
>>> pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated
>>> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
>>> nature-compatible human habitat
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kia ora
>>
>> [image: Picture]
>> *Steve Hart*
>> Ecology Architect
>> skype: stevenlawrencehart
>> _______________________________________________
>> permaculture mailing list
>> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
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>> maintenance:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
>> Google message archive search:
>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
>> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
>> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
>> http://www.ipermie.net
>> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
>> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
>> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
>> pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated
>> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
>> nature-compatible human habitat
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list
> maintenance:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> http://www.ipermie.net
> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers
> -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements
> for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible
> human habitat





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