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  • From: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Oil spill - solutions?
  • Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 19:07:37 -0700

As a former geneticist, I want to point out that nature transfers genes
between species, between families, even between phyla and kingdoms. It was
viruses that taught geneticists how to do it; viruses move genes between the
most distantly related organisms with great frequency and ease, making the
genetically engineered tomato with a fish gene look like child's play. Nature
is far ahead of us in the breeding world, and is doing things we can barely
dream of.

It makes no more sense to condemn genetic engineering itself than it does to
condemn a hammer or a computer. It's a tool. A permaculturist doesn't rule
out a tool simply because of its origin; if we did we wouldn't use hammers,
computers, or anything else that's a product of an unsustainable culture. The
techniques of genetic modification are not evil; it's the godawful stupid
things they do with them that are the evil. If we can talk about using
technical solutions like hair mats and mycelium to clean up oil spills (with
all their pluses and minuses), then we ought to include GMO microbes that eat
oil in the toolkit. None of them is going to solve the oil problem, but while
we work on the technical level, we work on other levels too.

My sense is that activism, even Jensen's violent kind, isn't going to bring
civilization down--and I like Derrick a lot, and I speak as an activist. The
elites are much better at violence than anyone else. I think oil will just
get too scarce, and the crash will solve a lot of those problems. I just hope
it happens soon enough.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com



On May 4, 2010, at 4:50 PM, jamesdavid Sneed wrote:

>
>
>
> Perhaps you can share your research sources on each statement about the
> microbes so each of us can pursue that. Also, even if an organism has NOT
> been genetically engineered as in splicing, a few "non-gmo" breeding
> techniques would never occur in Nature without humans forcing them to
> happen, and thus also bear dangerous potential.
>> Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 19:59:18 -0700
>> From: cory8570@yahoo.com
>> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Oil spill - solutions?
>>
>> Oil eating microbes die when the oil is gone. The oil, on the other hand,
>> sticks around in one form or other and keeps on killing. They are now
>> using toxic stuff that sinks it to the bottom of the ocean. I guess out of
>> sight, out of mind... The company I am most familiar with uses only
>> existing microbes, they are not GM at all.
>>
>> Cory
>>
>> --- On Mon, 5/3/10, jamesdavid Sneed <harvestcircle@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: jamesdavid Sneed <harvestcircle@hotmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Oil spill - solutions?
>>> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 2:13 PM
>>>
>>> Aren't a lot of those oil-eating microbes genetically
>>> modified? That would be cutting off our nose to spite our
>>> face.
>>>
>>>> Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 20:50:49 -0700
>>>> From: cory8570@yahoo.com
>>>> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Oil spill - solutions?
>>>>
>>>> I'm checking with a friend of mine who creates microbe
>>> formulas to see if he has one for this problem. Some
>>> microbes do eat oil, just need to assess the entire process
>>> and all waste products, consequences, etc. Tailored,
>>> cultured microbes might be best for this job. Anybody know
>>> of any other organizations that might be able to handle
>>> that? Application will definitely be something to
>>> solve.
>>>>
>>>> Cory
>>>>





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