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msar-riders - Re: [MSAR] People Boots

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Subject: Mounted search and rescue

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  • From: "IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN" <ilichten1@verizon.net>
  • To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [MSAR] People Boots
  • Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:32:32 -0500

I have used Dehner for the last 20 years or so.  I tried rubber, Western, Timberline, and probably everything else you could think of.  They are custom fitted and I have a summer pair and a winter pair.  The summer pair is worn with hiking socks, wool or mix, and the winter pair is worn with military style two piece sock system—inner wicking sock and outer heavy knit knee highs.  The boots have double soles, full leather lining, Spanish cut tops, synthetic soles, and are in Dragoon finish.  They are sized with the socks and pants/thermals/etc that will be worn with them.  Watch for shaft fit, it should be tight to keep stuff out of the leg but not too tight or any weight gain or even slight swelling of the legs will preclude getting them on again.  They may cost more but there is usually a factory sale in February (20% off), further discounts from the tack store (mention MSAR a lot), and they last forever if you can find someone to resole and heel them.  And since I wear a size 15EE or 16D street shoe and my boots start at 21 inches high off the rack was hard to fit.

 

You have to care for them as you would any leather boot—clean them with a leather cleaner, Lexol type quick fix, waterproof the welt as they age.  For the most part they are waterproof and can even serve as a bucket in an emergency. The best part is that you can walk in them. Unlike a Western boot which should be sized to slide off if you hang up in a stirrup and therefore is too loose to walk or even drive in, an English or cavalry boot is fitted and doesn’t move much when you walk or drive.  Stay away from specialty boots, like dressage, unless you really need a stiff boot.  Dressage boots make great ankle splints but even a half lined boot is very hard to walk in.

 

If you are standing on a clod surface your feet will get cold eventually.  The options are: get off the surface and let some other part of your body get cold, change to a warmer set of boots (Sorrel, hunting packs, snowmobile, etc.) and keep your feet dry.  You need circulation in the feet to keep frostbite away and the body tends to shut down areas that are loosing heat. 

 

 Irv Lichtenstein

SE PA Search and Rescue

 


From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Lila Corey
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 6:27 AM
To: Mounted search and rescue
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Are borium snow studs harder on tendons/joints?

 

Can anyone tell me what type of boots you have found the best for MSAR?  I prefer tall boots- have a pair of Dublin - used them on a search that ended up being on foot for 5 hours, raining and swampy- got a little damp the last hour- they are suppose to be waterproof but some dampness did penetrate.  I am in NC, so extreme temps are not USUALLY a problem, but I am extremely cold natured, do much better hot than cold.

Lila

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 2:25 AM

Subject: Re: [MSAR] Are borium snow studs harder on tendons/joints?

 

We live in Minnesota where ice and hard pack are unavoidable. I've used the borium rough spots for many years on several horses in our herd and haven't had a problem with them. We don't have gaited horses, rather, quarter horses and a thoroughbred, but they adapted quickly to them and it's been handy when there have been glare ice patches. My cart pony slipped and fell down without them. When we put them on his front feet, he was fine.

-----Original Message-----
From: ALLEN SNYDER <allendana1@sbcglobal.net>
To: Mounted search and rescue <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2009 1:17 am
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Are borium snow studs harder on tendons/joints?

Our 2 older horses are only shod in front, but the farrier told me he has not heard that the screw-in studs caused more injury than borium rough spots on the shoes.  These studs last longer, but I can't help thinking that the quick catch if they were to stop suddenly or turn could not be damaging.  They appear to be used to them and this is the second winter I have used them without any falls or apparent injury.  Your thoughts?

Thanks.  Dana

--- On Tue, 12/15/09, Karen Nesbitt <spanishequines@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Karen Nesbitt <spanishequines@yahoo.com>
Subject: [MSAR] Borium caulks and fitness
To: "MSAR" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 3:15 PM

IN COMMENT TO:


Message: 5
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:43:11 -0600
From: Joe Volz <volz.joe@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Horses hooves
To: Mounted search and rescue <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    <b6928e0a0912141443j1238dab6v4a602d4cb96371d3@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

My guess is how the borium is put on.  My farrier cuts 3 pieces-- one for
toe and one for each heel.  He then puts it in his furnace to heat it up and
then he slightly presses down on the borium so it leaves it with a rough
surface.  It lasts me one season because the shoes/borium do wear down.  I
find them very beneficial when I go trail riding because some of the rock
ledges on the trail in Shawnee National Forest get a little wet and
slippery.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 2:39 PM, <emboote@aol.com> wrote:

> Joe,
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience, and I should have been clearer. I don't
> use the screw in removable studs, but have spots welded to the bottom of the
> shoes. It sounds like you have the same thing and had better success them.
>
> Emily
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Volz <volz.joe@gmail.com>
> To: Mounted search and rescue <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Fri, Dec 4, 2009 12:53 pm
> Subject: Re: [MSAR] Horses hooves
>
>  Emily,
>
> How have the borium studs worked for you?  I found that they were more of a
> severe grip on the asphalt than the regular borium spots.
>
> In my mounted police work, there were times I needed to do some spinning
> and i became worried about straining the tendons.
>
> Joe
>
> On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 8:36 AM, <emboote@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> When you talk to your vet or ferrier, tell them the kind of work your
>> horse needs to do and that makes a difference in what they recommend is best
>> for you and your horse.
>>
>> I need to be ready for urban security and rural field searches, plus any
>> weather conditions...ice and snow season is approaching, so I use snow pads
>> in the winter to keep snowballs from forming, plus shoes with borium studs.
>> In the summer, I put shoes on them because we're frequently in the mountains
>> with sharp rocks and stones and I've learned from past experience, to
>> protect them so they don't get bruised. I've tried shoeless but with the
>> amount of daily riding we do, the hoofs were wearing down too fast on the
>> city patrols because of the asphalt and cement we work on. With a herd of
>> six, there are differences in what works best for each. I've just learned
>> over the years that while the hoofs vary from horse to horse, the factor
>> that makes the difference is what kind of work they're expected to do. I
>> don't want a barefoot horse stepping on something downtown that can cause an
>> injury. They're pretty good at letting me know if they don't want to step
>> somewhere. My mustang would go up the trails in the Black Hills and not step
>> on a single rock when he was barefoot. He tends to be flat. With shoes, he's
>> not as concerned.
>>
>> How's the new MSAR group doing down there in Georgia, Steve?
>>
>> Emily
>>
_____________________________>>>>

 

Joe, Emily etc...for those of you having gaiters...

 

I personally do not advise the use of borium on especially Paso gaited horses.  Based on experience with them on my own.

 

When I was new to the Paso breeds I thought it would be best to put a set of boruims on my Paso Fino to ride in the winter.  Thought it would give her better traction. Afterall, it did for my quarter horse, so figured it would work onher.  Even my shoer thought that was correct. What I learned is that it stuttered her gait and the borium could have caused major lameness issues.

 

She wore the set of boruim welded caulked shoes for 5 weeks.  In that time I encountered misirable snow balling while she was at pasture making it horrible for her to walk.  While riding, she did not snowball as badly only because her quick gait would knock them out, however the caulk gripping the pavement would interfere with her natural gait.  It was hardly noticible, but I could feel the difference and what was occuring was excess concussion to her legs and knees and shoulder and the action  if allowed to be continued could be detrimental.  As it gripped the pavement it also jammed her knees thus jamming the shoulder.   Upon 5 weeks, that horse wore the borium caulks  right off the shoes and I had to get the shoes removed.  The mare was so quick gaited she wore the nailheads to paperthinness in that time..howewever the first couple weeks were the weeks that could have caused the most harm, but fortuneately for me for her it did not.

 

My shoer at the time could not beleive any horse could wear off the boruim caulks he welded on any shoe he made and how he had done them and he never had any horse do that to any shoe he set before.   He did mainly trooters and had no problem and insisted they would last 8-12 weeks or better and could be reset on them.  He did not encounter many pasos at that time.

 

During week 4 of her wearing the shoes I noticed her gait improving, however she would slip on the pavement.  The borion was nearly wore off by that time.  I did extensive trail riding at that time even in the winter. The work was hard fast hours a day daily.  My shoer also told me, most people did not ride there horses as much as I did and no less in the winter.  Most riders are weekend warriors, which is even harder on a horse since they lack perpetual condition.  They actually are not rode enough to stay in a good peak condition and most are stall bound.

 

Upon disucssion with my shoer we decided it was not good for the breed of horse so we let her go barefoot and she has been barefoot ever since and now at age 30  the mare has the best feet and has never suffered any lameness in her life and remains sound today.

 

I do not recommend these kinds of shoes for any Paso simply because prolonged use and the prolonged struttering in the Paso gait these shoes can cause will only lead to permanant knee damage in time and cause shoulder lameness as well due to the gripping concussion..

 

Paso gaited horses are quite sure footed pretty much no matter what the terrain when barefoot.  About the only time I recommend shoeing them is if you have a horse that cannot handle rocky terrain and even then I recommend staying with a flat plate minimal shoe or if it has a bad foot and requires a corrective shoe to start..  The majority of SOUND horses if allowed to go on a natural hoof will develop a foot that can handle even rocky kinds of terrain.  There is a lot to be said for the natural foot.  It is importand for the hoof no matter what to be able to pump the blood and circulate.

 

I want to add something about weekend warriors here in that most of your horses do not get adequate exersize for their specie even if pastured.  Because they are primarily idle, when worked hard only periodically, their bodies do not get the chance to develop a lean hard muscled body that a fully conditioned  FIT horse will have..  Weekend warrior horses or idle horses are also largely kept way too fat and often fed improperly.  They have the most problems.  They will lack stamina and endurance.  They will have fat flabby muscles and be soft and have what I call "toaster bums"  (A fat rump with the dip on top!)  Many score a 9 on the body condtion chart.  A nine is not the best score and neither is a 1. These animals and their hearts will not be as tweaked as a horse that is lean and fit and properly in condition. 

 

In most stables today unless  someone has a race horse or endurance animal, it is almost pretty uncommon to see a peak fit condition horse unless you work the individual horse several hours a day every day and they are properly fed.  Most are way too fat.  Fine tuned fit horses have little body fat and are lean flat muscled and score around a 5 in body condition.  Many people do not know what a fit conditioned horse is supposed to look like, no less what the fit of most breeds are supposed look like.   Scoring high on the horse body condition chart for fitness is the wrong way to go..

 

Properly fed and properly conditioned horses will also have good  sound feet.

 

        Karen

 

 

 

 


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