Typical Girls: Women in Punk/Post-Punk/Underground Music (Circa 1975-1980s)

[Tobi Vail <tobivail AT gmail.com>]

also, re: women and American hardcore
yeah it was super male-dominated, but us feminists were there, on the
stage, in the pit, putting on shows, producing radio shows, making
fanzines...would calling ourselves feminists have made survival in
that setting more probable? I mean, it was a struggle to exist on my
own terms in the 80's hardcore scene, a struggle for respect and
finding my own voice...but I was a feminist and there were many of us,
we just didn't all know each other existed yet

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Tobi Vail <tobivail AT gmail.com> wrote:
> it really depends on what you mean by feminist...the name itself
> wasn't embraced by women in punk/post-punk either in the u.s. or
> europe as I understand it...but was seeing The Patti Smith Group in
> 1975 a feminist experience? does that depend on the viewer or the
> performer? audience reception to cultural work by women is often a
> reason why female musicians hesitate to categorize themselves. we are
> already "types" of less than human broken down by dichotomy of
> virgin/whore/slut/dyke/bitch etc rock journalism in the 70's was
> pretty misogynist (with notable exceptions) and this hadn't changed
> much by the 90's...if it's changed now I haven't noticed...so all
> these factors play into how a band chooses to label or not label
> themselves...political could mean "uptight" or "taking yourself too
> seriously" or  playful and fun and aeshetic like huggy bear ...of
> course when women in punk tried to re-define punk and feminism to be
> more inclusive, suddenly every woman in a band was a "riot grrl" and
> had no sense of humor, was naive, judged by their appearance,
> belittled, shamed and dismissed...of course girls in the audience
> largely didn't care, but when those girls took the stage, they weren't
> always eager to fly the feminist flag...I think that makes sense.
> while your at it, read this anti-nostalgia rant by marissa magic:
> http://punkymagic.blogspot.com/2010/09/recent-column-i-wrote-for-mrr.html
>  ...2011 is the 20 year anniversary of riot grrl...
> oh yeah and on that note, this came out today:
> http://vimeo.com/14584280
> a fantastic new video by grass widow
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Chuck Warner <chuck AT hyped2death.com> wrote:
>> I'd go farther and point out that the strongest feminist voices of the punk
>> and postpunk era were heavily non-Anglos, even inside the UK. Ironically, I
>> think this may have resulted from the relative success of the mid-70s
>> women's music scene in the U.S. and (to a slightly lesser extent) in the
>> U.K.  This preceding generation's lyrics were highly political 
>> (doctrinaire,
>> even) but at the same time the music was almost universally unambitious -
>> and far too often was focused simply on demonstrating that XX could play 
>> "as
>> well as the guys". So, while on the one hand the older generation attacked
>> punk's lyrical lack of cohesion, Punk's musical rebellion brought it into
>> head-on conflict with "women's music" as the latter existed in 1976. And
>> since seventies women's music lacked the intergenerational grey areas of
>> pub-rock, NWOBHM, or art-school bands... there was almost no opportunity
>> for, uh, peaceful coexistence.  By contrast, because Continental women's
>> music in the 1970s had been more anarchic to begin with - and was much less
>> distinct from a multitude of leftist and "radical" causes - the transition
>> to punk (and community support for women who did chose to express their
>> feminism as punks) came much easier.
>>
>> There's also the question of conventional women's singing styles. Anglo 
>> folk
>> and pop traditions rarely embraced the idea of women just making as much
>> noise as they possibly could - unlike Central and Eastern European
>> traditions - or many Asian and African traditions, either.
>>
>> I suspect, however, that some part of this phenomenon goes back even 
>> farther
>> - consider the huge proportion of female pop-stars on the charts of the
>> 1960s who were Jewish and/or from the East.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> C
>>
>>> music (deservingly) fell victim to Punk's musical rebellion, I suspect  my
>>> suspicion, anyway, is that a lot of punk-age women who wanted to  Hi
>>> everyone,
>>>
>>> I'm new to the list, just joined today, but I had a question I've been
>>> thinking about and I'd like to get some other opinions.
>>>
>>> Is it fair to say that the strongest feminist punk voices of the 1980s
>>> came from European bands? If so, why do you think that is?
>>>
>>> I've been thinking that it's a combination of the American backlash
>>> against feminism of the 1980s and the proliferation of hyper-masculinized
>>> hardcore within the punk communities but I feel like I'm missing something
>>> (or perhaps totally off base!).
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>  - K
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TypicalGirls mailing list
>>> TypicalGirls AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/typicalgirls
>>
>>
>> Chuck Warner
>> Hyped to Death / Messthetics CDs
>> P.O. Box 351
>> Westminster, MA 01473
>> http://hyped2death.com
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>>
>