Developer Only Discussion List

[Eric Sandall <eric AT sandall.us>]

Quoting Hamish Greig <hgreig AT bigpond.net.au>:
> According to a news site poll our preference for 1.0 release was both a rock
> 
> solid sorcery ( http://news.sourcemage.org/pollbooth.php?qid=1.0date&aid=-1
> )
> and a good installer/rescue cd, highest votes actually went to an iso with 
> full sources, but considering versions can change on a daily basis, 
> including
> 
> sources in the iso, even for stable grimoire is a waste of time and space.  
> ( http://news.sourcemage.org/pollbooth.php?qid=isoSize&aid=-1 )
> I have only been actively working on the ISO project for a month or so, and 
> after browsing through bugzilla, old meeting logs, and even the old ISO 
> teams
> 
> roadmap it has become obvious there are a lot of features wanted/ requested 
> for 1.0 that have not been implemented. Many bugs have been arbitrarily 
> closed, others have been misfiled or poorly dealt with, and some others have
> 
> been untouched for months.
> I have no control over sorcery, but I can excercise control over the ISO.
> So immediately below are several features I will implement for the 1.0
> release 
> ISO, regardless of the upcoming deadline. Below that are possible additions,
> 
> that although nice, can wait until later if necessary.
> The one thing I do not plan on implementing myself in this time is hardware 
> detection. Unet has been working on this, if his work is ready when mine is,
> 
> then I shall merge it, test it and release an ISO we can all be proud of.

Sorcery and the ISO have made quite a few inroads since their inception and
there have been some bumps and bruises, but what project hasn't? Most of our
ISOs have worked for the majority of people, many people have had their 
systems
running since they first installed Sorcerer GNU/Linux, some without having to
fix anything, and most of us have had fun in the process.

I do agree that our 1.0 ISO should be rock-solid, but then we should define 
what
"rock-solid" is. To me, that means it just works (doesn't have to be pretty)
and you can install on any type of system (barring architecture differences),
which our ISOs have (mostly) been following, except for RAID/LVM support, but
there aren't too many systems which are easy to test that on (as they're
probably servers).

> definite additions:
> * choice of grub or lilo as bootloader
> * individual spell caches instead of monolithic image.tar.bz2 making for 
> better rescue performance and easier choice of software to install
> * full software raid support 
> * restart function in installer (to start over in case of mistakes without 
> rebooting).
> * addition of nfs and openssh software, optionally installed, for rapid 
> deployment in a remote environment. (make it possible to install, reboot and
> 
> have instant remote access, instead of rebooting and still having to setup 
> remote access)
> * also nfs will allow for netbooting/ net installs (using a floppy)
> * menu selection of possible root devices within the initrd shell (for 
> rescue
> 
> mounting)
> * a menu to select install or rescue mode , followed by menu driven 
> partition mounting for rescue mode, so a system that won't boot (due to init
> 
> or glibc problems etc) can be recovered easily without shelling out , 
> manually running a lot of commands and untarring a 600MB image.tar.bz2 .
> 
> possible additions:
> * gcc inclusion in iso_root so CROSS_INSTALL can be used to recover a system
> 
> using latest grimoire version (instead of the cached version on the ISO ), 
> using CROSS_INSTALL and INSTALL_ROOT=/mnt/root would let you run cast --fix 
> from the ISO.(only if sorcery is fixed to not use absolute paths for entries
> 
> in install and md5sum logs)
> * FHS /srv and /media usage (voted against by us en masse, but is still 
> becoming a standard so may be added)
> * netboot floppy
> * full pcmcia support (depends on feedback from some testers)

All good ideas. Are there any volunteers to help, even if it's just testing? I
have an LVM system to test on, but no RAID. I would like to see that we get 
1.0
out on time, if we can.
 
> After this 1.0 ISO has been finished and released I will retire from ISO
> lead. 
> I WILL fix any critical bugs if they exist, but my intention is to leave a 
> suitable infrastructure so anyone can take over and continue the work.
> I will also be retiring from grimoire duties. I may continue to use SMGL and
> 
> file bugs, or I may not, I can't say at this point in time. 
> The simple reason I am leaving is that working on SMGL is no longer fun for 
> me.
> Despite all the work I have done in the last year, I now find myself working
> 
> harder than ever before, trying to achieve what we all wanted but no-one  
> managed to organise or implement. This is frustrating as hell. I know there 
> is no more I could have done, I spent hours working on grimoire bugs, I 
> tried to start discussion of teams roadmap goals and their lack of 
> achievement several times, I tried to communicate with other developers 
> openly in an attempt to help them plan their work and give them support if 
> they needed it. I attended all the meetings and made myself available on IRC
> 
> and mail lists. I filed bugs when I found them, and posted comments to 
> others
> 
> when I had input relevant to that bug. At times my frustration even caused 
> me
> 
> to be rude to people, I don't apologise for this, I do however wish I had 
> managed to get my dissatisfaction across another way. 
> To put it bluntly I hate the lack of open communication within this 
> "opensource" project and I am giving up.

I am sorry to hear this, you've have been a great boon to us. While you may 
see
some of us as intractable, lazy, incompetent, etc., try to remember that we 
are
all volunteers and can only donate as much time and skill as we have. Some
people have more time and skill to dedicate to SMGL than others and we should
not harp on them to do more, however, we should also keep in mind that we
shouldn't take on more responsibilities than we have time for.

If you don't think SMGL is fun anymore and so quite why not stay on, but with
the idea in mind that it /should/ be fun, and if it's not, take a break,
instead of quitting altogether. While part of the team you can still try to
work from within the system to improve it and offer your insightful ideas.
 
> I will only announce and release  1.0 ISO when I consider it it has been
> fully 
> tested and is ready, regardless of external pressures.

That kind of puts a crink in things, but as ISO Lead that's your call.

> Hamish

-sandalle

PS: I'm kind of in a hurry and working on homework and stuyding for an exam, 
so
if this doesn't quite seem coherent, that's why. ;)

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Eric Sandall                     |  Source Mage GNU/Linux Developer
eric AT sandall.us                  |  http://www.sourcemage.org/
http://eric.sandall.us/          |  SysAdmin @ Inst. Shock Physics @ WSU
http://counter.li.org/  #196285  |  http://www.shock.wsu.edu/

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