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[Minet Laurent <laurentminet@yahoo.fr>]

I have no idea of what the sample size was when Luer dissected and described both species (he often based his work on single specimen), but I entirely agree that such closely looking "species", with suxh minor difference, being almost sympatric, could as well be regarded as one single, slightly variable, species! that's why I did cross my 2 plants, I hardly can consider both as different species.

Laurent

Le Lundi 25 août 2014 22h44, geiger <geiger@vetigastropoda.com> a écrit :

3 vs. 4 calli?!? hmmm, what is the sample size? Flowers on plant, plants, same plant-different years/culture conditions? How tightly does that correlate with geography? I am extremely skeptical of taxa with very limited ranges/sample-sizes and rather limited differentiation. Recent separation of one person is infraspecific variability of another. I admit, I am a "lumper": unless it is clearly separate, it is the same. I am not afraid of naming species based on very few specimens, or even one: e.g., Depressizona axiosculpta Geiger, 2009, but then the differences must be in your face.

 

Also, that crosses are possible has two faces: either it is a recent separation, and there still is interfertility. However, evolutionary theory would predict strong separating mechanism (positive Darwinian selection) particularly in sympatric conditions or with secondary contact (positive reinforcement). If the latter view is taken, then the interfertility suggests conspecificity, unless one postulates strong pre-zygotic isolating mechanisms (changes in pollinators; different flowering seasons, …), but that is a steep hill to climb. Also allopatry and range extension are two explanations of the same observation.

 

I've been looking at calli in Oberonia with SEM, and there is quite a bit of infraspecific variability. My 2c of rather pleurothallid-ignorant thoughts. I have not seen the green books, and just go off the "3 vs. 4" morsel. I don't want to fault Laurent-the-messenger for it, but I would suggest critical reading of anything that is published.

 

Best wishes

 

Daniel

 

On August 25, 2014 at 11:34 AM Minet Laurent <laurentminet@yahoo.fr> wrote:

Hi Dave

 

here is my contribution to your questions:

 

Ecuagenera do have R. chocoensis from flasked seeds. whether they're from a succesful selfing, or from an outcross, is a question I can't answer.

 

The difference between T. scobina & regia lies in the number of calli/keels on the lip. One species has 3, while the other has 4. That's what I read in the Icones. I've both species, and will probably, someday, dissect one flower from each to check if my plants are correctly labelled. In the meantime, I've just harvested pods of scobina x regia. From their distribution maps, it seems they're quite recently isolated populations of a common ancestor.

Laurent

Le Lundi 25 août 2014 19h50, "Horak, David" <DavidHorak@bbg.org> a écrit :

There hasn’t been any action on the list in a while so, perhaps someone can help with a couple of questions:

 

1 - Restrepia chocoensis was known from a single collection for a very long time and – as I understand it – self infertile; I know that a second plant  was purportedly found some time in the recent past. Does anyone know when the second plant was found; if there have been any successful outcrosses with the original, and if so are progeny now available?

 

2 - What are the morphological distinctions between Trisetella regia and scobina? I do not have access to the green books and am curious.

 

Dave Horak

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Daniel L. Geiger, Ph.D.
Curator of Malacology
Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History
2559 Puesta del Sol
Santa Barbara CA 93105

805 682 4711 Extension 152

geiger@vetigastropoda.com - dgeiger@sbnature2.org
www.vetigastropoda.com


Geiger & Owen, 2012: Abalone Monograph
http://www.vetigastropoda.com/abstracts/publications/book.php

Geiger, 2012: Monograph of the Little Slit shells
http://www.vetigastropoda.com/scissurellidae/

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