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[czoltowski@sbcglobal.net]

I have a Pleuro chocoensis.  It came from Marni Turkel.  I don't know where 
she obtained it.  Mine is quite happy and grown easily.
Carol Zoltowski
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

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Sender: "pleurothallid-l" <pleurothallid-l-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:44:08 
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Today's Topics:

   1. masd Measuriana (Frogpondphrags@aol.com)
   2. Restrepia chocoensis and Trisetella regia (Horak, David)
   3. Re: Restrepia chocoensis and Trisetella regia (Minet Laurent)
   4. Re: Restrepia chocoensis and Trisetella regia (geiger)


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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 15:53:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frogpondphrags@aol.com
To: pleurothallid-l@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [pleurothallid-l] masd Measuriana
Message-ID: <620fd.5c66522e.409e8c24@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I was given a lovely masdevallia measuriana.  I am unable to find  
information regarding this specie, although goggle provided a photography of 
the  
white flower.  I assume the plant has been renamed and would be grateful  for 
more information. .
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:35:46 -0400
From: "Horak, David" <DavidHorak@bbg.org>
To: "pleurothallid-l@lists.ibiblio.org"
        <pleurothallid-l@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: [pleurothallid-l] Restrepia chocoensis and Trisetella regia
Message-ID:
        <E5B433D384461A4B88B48068709ACD3D902BFF03AA@jardin.home.bbg.org>
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There hasn't been any action on the list in a while so, perhaps someone can 
help with a couple of questions:

1 - Restrepia chocoensis was known from a single collection for a very long 
time and - as I understand it - self infertile; I know that a second plant  
was purportedly found some time in the recent past. Does anyone know when the 
second plant was found; if there have been any successful outcrosses with the 
original, and if so are progeny now available?

2 - What are the morphological distinctions between Trisetella regia and 
scobina? I do not have access to the green books and am curious.

Dave Horak
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 19:34:25 +0100
From: Minet Laurent <laurentminet@yahoo.fr>
To: "pleurothallid-l@lists.ibiblio.org"
        <pleurothallid-l@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [pleurothallid-l] Restrepia chocoensis and Trisetella
        regia
Message-ID:
        <1408991665.8460.YahooMailNeo@web172606.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Dave

here is my contribution to your questions:

Ecuagenera do have R. chocoensis from flasked seeds. whether they're from a 
succesful selfing, or from an outcross, is a question I can't answer.

The difference between T. scobina & regia lies in the number of calli/keels 
on the lip. One species has 3, while the other has 4. That's what I read in 
the Icones. I've both species, and will probably, someday, dissect one flower 
from each to check if my plants are correctly labelled. In the meantime, I've 
just harvested pods of scobina x regia. From their distribution maps, it 
seems they're quite recently isolated populations of a common ancestor.
Laurent


Le Lundi 25 ao?t 2014 19h50, "Horak, David" <DavidHorak@bbg.org> a ?crit :
 


There hasn?t been any action on the list in a while so, perhaps someone can 
help with a couple of questions:
?
1 - Restrepia chocoensis was known from a single collection for a very long 
time and ? as I understand it ? self infertile; I know that a second plant? 
was purportedly found some time in the recent past. Does anyone know when the 
second plant was found; if there have been any successful outcrosses with the 
original, and if so are progeny now available?
?
2 - What are the morphological distinctions between Trisetella regia and 
scobina? I do not have access to the green books and am curious.
?
Dave Horak
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:14:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: geiger <geiger@vetigastropoda.com>
To: pleurothallid-l@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [pleurothallid-l] Restrepia chocoensis and Trisetella
        regia
Message-ID:
        <1614526640.2695925.1408997640946.open-xchange@bosoxweb03.eigbox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

3 vs. 4 calli?!? hmmm, what is the sample size? Flowers on plant, plants, same
plant-different years/culture conditions? How tightly does that correlate with
geography? I am extremely skeptical of taxa with very limited
ranges/sample-sizes and rather limited differentiation. Recent separation of 
one
person is infraspecific variability of another. I admit, I am a "lumper": 
unless
it is clearly separate, it is the same. I am not afraid of naming species 
based
on very few specimens, or even one: e.g., Depressizona axiosculpta Geiger, 
2009,
but then the differences must be in your face.

Also, that crosses are possible has two faces: either it is a recent 
separation,
and there still is interfertility. However, evolutionary theory would predict
strong separating mechanism (positive Darwinian selection) particularly in
sympatric conditions or with secondary contact (positive reinforcement). If 
the
latter view is taken, then the interfertility suggests conspecificity, unless
one postulates strong pre-zygotic isolating mechanisms (changes in 
pollinators;
different flowering seasons, ?), but that is a steep hill to climb. Also
allopatry and range extension are two explanations of the same observation.

I've been looking at calli in Oberonia with SEM, and there is quite a bit of
infraspecific variability. My 2c of rather pleurothallid-ignorant thoughts. I
have not seen the green books, and just go off the "3 vs. 4" morsel. I don't
want to fault Laurent-the-messenger for it, but I would suggest critical 
reading
of anything that is published.

Best wishes

Daniel


> On August 25, 2014 at 11:34 AM Minet Laurent <laurentminet@yahoo.fr> wrote:
> 
>  Hi Dave
> 
>  here is my contribution to your questions:
> 
>  Ecuagenera do have R. chocoensis from flasked seeds. whether they're from a
> succesful selfing, or from an outcross, is a question I can't answer.
> 
>  The difference between T. scobina & regia lies in the number of calli/keels
> on the lip. One species has 3, while the other has 4. That's what I read in
> the Icones. I've both species, and will probably, someday, dissect one 
> flower
> from each to check if my plants are correctly labelled. In the meantime, 
> I've
> just harvested pods of scobina x regia. From their distribution maps, it 
> seems
> they're quite recently isolated populations of a common ancestor.
>  Laurent
> 
> 
>  Le Lundi 25 ao?t 2014 19h50, "Horak, David" <DavidHorak@bbg.org> a ?crit :
> 
> 
>  There hasn?t been any action on the list in a while so, perhaps someone can
> help with a couple of questions:
> 
>  1 - Restrepia chocoensis was known from a single collection for a very long
> time and ? as I understand it ? self infertile; I know that a second plant
>  was purportedly found some time in the recent past. Does anyone know when 
> the
> second plant was found; if there have been any successful outcrosses with 
> the
> original, and if so are progeny now available?
> 
>  2 - What are the morphological distinctions between Trisetella regia and
> scobina? I do not have access to the green books and am curious.
> 
>  Dave Horak
> 
>  _______________________________________________
>  pleurothallid-l mailing list
>  pleurothallid-l@lists.ibiblio.org 
> <mailto:pleurothallid-l@lists.ibiblio.org>
>  http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/pleurothallid-l
> 
> 
> 



> _______________________________________________
>  pleurothallid-l mailing list
>  pleurothallid-l@lists.ibiblio.org
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> 


Daniel L. Geiger, Ph.D.
Curator of Malacology
Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History
2559 Puesta del Sol
Santa Barbara CA 93105

805 682 4711 Extension 152

geiger@vetigastropoda.com - dgeiger@sbnature2.org
www.vetigastropoda.com


Geiger & Owen, 2012: Abalone Monograph
http://www.vetigastropoda.com/abstracts/publications/book.php

Geiger, 2012: Monograph of the Little Slit shells
http://www.vetigastropoda.com/scissurellidae/
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