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  • From: João Pedro Moreira Gonçalves <joaovox@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [permaculture] Pc designers in Cuba WAS Re: The Third Ethic
  • Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 15:34:11 +0100

"The permaculture designers who helped
initiate Cuba’s post oil urban agriculture are a good example. They
mobilised a whole country to become self-reliant. "

Who were they?

A qua, 8/05/2019, 01:36, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> escreveu:

> On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 6:45 PM Robyn Francis <robyn@permaculture.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> > Just curious about the various interpretations and renditions of the
> Third
> > Permaculture ethic, in particular the origins of the ‘Disperse the
> surplus’
> > catch cry. Curiously this is not mentioned in the Designers Manual, only
> > “Limits to population and consumption” is defined there as the 3rd ethic.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
>
> In this list there was fairly intense discussion of the three ethics, how
> they were names an how they were defined and interpreted. Scott probably
> participated in this. It went on for
> enough posts to cover plenty of ground. My thoughts are that "return the
> surplus" or disperse the surplus" is critically important.....for hundreds
> of good reasons, some of which are "keep the money (or goods) in the
> community" and fund highly valued activities of community members" and the
> obvious "fund those in need".
>
> We can thank Scott for continuing to emphasize the importance of the three
> ethics and that they are the essence of Permaculture.
>
> Here are some things I found by searching the message archives for this
> list:
>
> From the Permaculture Institute Facebook page:
> Permaculture Institute
> <
> https://www.facebook.com/Permaculture.Institute.USA/?__tn__=kC-R&eid=ARCAF13L2rx8SAeWJ8GxIRurdcCYrojKr3nEFE29qfk3LjcViwmEIjmkCWGy7v_H0UUOlgP7tPVOxmgQ&hc_ref=ARRPMS861rijgVIn9OTv2lMO3gn0bPK0uZvvRioN2z3ECpnojOm57Eoc7YyFzAvBpCw&fref=nf&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARA61dYKztio4Hmwxg-mag2mvvbw3AHoq8fwpDxnjPYQ2iMWeAlgRn2QEb2UYk87vJCxGJuRSRWU2YiF6L6ev-JgasgSLxo8eHEZH6JSne79VbuTYpyiP5wu1oCbxnpwaxRYfbLG1k2A49qkdRujtwrcmdQrQXVZP8gDz8XgXGJvpXjR73jOhLuQx1exnRQ3Pji2mwOxE1thJtrTsn0zSp7zKVmMT9kJ5_VgMYsjL570Ii2BVdLpooAtIBf7owDlfwuabkmlTTrV5ePNhOr9E3Pt2o7jmG5MXi1q-3uSOWPnq5IrwId89OVBCBTwRh-k9iM5uciiJNG5Oe5WhbbYuEvCqneB
> >
> March 22, 2014
> <
> https://www.facebook.com/Permaculture.Institute.USA/posts/10202597250786217?__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARA61dYKztio4Hmwxg-mag2mvvbw3AHoq8fwpDxnjPYQ2iMWeAlgRn2QEb2UYk87vJCxGJuRSRWU2YiF6L6ev-JgasgSLxo8eHEZH6JSne79VbuTYpyiP5wu1oCbxnpwaxRYfbLG1k2A49qkdRujtwrcmdQrQXVZP8gDz8XgXGJvpXjR73jOhLuQx1exnRQ3Pji2mwOxE1thJtrTsn0zSp7zKVmMT9kJ5_VgMYsjL570Ii2BVdLpooAtIBf7owDlfwuabkmlTTrV5ePNhOr9E3Pt2o7jmG5MXi1q-3uSOWPnq5IrwId89OVBCBTwRh-k9iM5uciiJNG5Oe5WhbbYuEvCqneB&__tn__=-R
> >
> ·
>
> Musings and mutterings from Scott Pittman in response to comments made by
> Toby Hemenway and Steve Hart (see below)!!
>
> I have to concur with Toby's rejection of bum osculation as our way out of
> a grim situation but I must also reject the hypothesis of evolving
> ourselves into a brighter future. I think that there is a middle path of
> activism that gives me some hope.
>
> That activism is what I have been teaching and practicing for the past 30
> years and it is permaculture. Not the watered down version of permaculture
> that is currently being flogged by to many incompetent teachers and
> practitioners but the version that I believe was envisioned by Bill
> Mollison's anger and David Holmgin's thoughtfulness and keeping in mind
> that hey stood on the shoulders of generations of experiential knowledge.
>
> To correct our current course it is necessary for us to return to some old
> ideas, beginning with the "ethics". At some point the fourth ethic was
> dropped from the teaching of permaculture and that ethic, reduction of
> population and consumerism, was and is critical to our future path. It has
> been the incredible increase in grain crops afforded by agro-chemicals, and
> mechanical monocrop agriculture that has provided the fodder for the
> phenomenal boom in population while at the same time ushering in a new
> catalog of diseases and economic inequality. I have reverted back to this
> use of four ethical principals in order to cover what I perceive as a
> serious oversight.
>
> I also believe if we are to take ourselves seriously, and be taken
> seriously we have to return to and further develop a set of standards and
> practices of permaculture that will give the word more credibility. Since
> the first courses taught by Bill Mollison (except for a brief period in the
> early development of the Permaculture Design Course) the PDC was 12 full
> days of lecture, practicum, and design. I think this should be a minimum
> standard and I would argue that we need more time than this if teachers
> insist on creating the illusion and giving permission for their students to
> immediately go out and teach the PDC and design properties. This is of
> course fantasy for the most part and has opened the doors to speculators
> who see the marketability of permaculture and once they have their
> "certificates" feel free to exploit those seeking solutions to real
> problems. The Permaculture Institute (PI)does not recognize certificates
> from a PDC that comes from an individual who does not have a Permaculture
> Diploma as valid certificates nor do we honor certificates from course that
> are less than 12 days in length.
>
> In order to encourage more development of teachers we only charge full
> tuition and costs to first time participants in the PDC, once one has a PDC
> one is welcome to participate an any other courses just for the cost of
> being there (food, lodging, and venue). This was the practice of Bill
> Mollison and it was, I believe, to enable potential teachers the
> opportunity to experience many teaching styles and to hone their own craft
> thereby.
>
> The Curriculum of the PDC was established at the first Permaculture
> Conference in 1984 and that curriculum is the one that the PI still
> recognizes as the only curriculum for certification. Since there have,
> obviously, been many new developments not incorporated in this curriculum
> it is expected that the teachers will incorporate new material on a regular
> basis. We believe that "Permaculture - A Designer's Manual" is one of the
> seminal books on permaculture we do not recognize it as the curriculum, but
> rather one of many books that more fully explicate the material in the
> curriculum.
>
> Every PDC must incorporate one or more design exercises and must finish
> with a talent show. While many current teachers don't maintain the
> tradition of a talent show I believe it is an important part of the
> pedagogy of permaculture and should be continued. I would be glad to argue
> the pedagogical benefits of the talent show off list.
>
> That pretty much covers my thoughts on teaching and the PDC and it is the
> erosion of this tradition that I think creates the greatest danger to
> permaculture as a design system and as a way into the future.
>
> While I am deeply concerned with global climate change, social inequality,
> the rapid growth of fascism in our governing bodies, and economic
> malfeasance that supports all of these maladies, I am not in the least
> deterred from the path I am on. I believe that permaculture offers all of
> the tools we need to create a better way to live and I don't see any other
> game out there that does as good a job, when done right and with integrity.
> Even if mankind was due for extinction within the next twenty years what
> would you radically change about your daily life and your relationship with
> others??
>
> Thanks for indulging me!
>
> Scott Pittman
>
> "To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
> obsolete" Buckminster Fuller
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:
> permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Toby Hemenway
> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 12:24 PM
> To: permaculture
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Extinction of the species Man ? H2BO&KYAG
>
> In the immortal words of Larry Santoyo:
>
> "Then, let's just die."
>
> I don't think saving the planet or the human species or civilization are
> goals worth contemplating--no more achievable or worth wasting resources on
> than keeping the sun from burning out in a few billion years. But what is
> quite achievable is saving myself and any friends who want to play with
> me--and creating models for others to do that--and that's what I'm focused
> on. And I am having a wonderful time doing it, rather than wrecking my
> spine and getting a terrible taste in my mouth by trying to master
> auto-ass-kissing.
>
> I think "it's too late to do anything" is a harmful and false message. It's
> illogical: if it's true, then it's pointless to waste time talking about
> it, and if it's not true, then you're spreading fear and despair
> unnecessarily. Since you can never, ever know if it's true, given all the
> other choices of message we could have, it's unethical to spread it. The
> inaction, despair, and fear that it breeds are the worst frameworks for
> decision-making. It's the dumbest kind of dead-end street to waste time on!
> And it sure ain't permaculture.
>
> Human extinction would take centuries at the least, and more likely
> millennia, and will be avoided by lots of tiny, local decisions rather than
> giant global plans. The loudest advocate of near-term human extinction is
> Guy McPherson, and he's had to utterly distort the scientific evidence to
> make his case:
>
> http://fractalplanet.wordpress.com/…/how-guy-mcpherson-get…/
> <
> https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Ffractalplanet.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F02%2F17%2Fhow-guy-mcpherson-gets-it-wrong%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR3EKq2XWPOx06Hl5NuxnKEIXpSj4WZXGfegQTX0bduN4m-ZiRAbaGQTvCg&h=AT2iE4ddl8jaLkmvmo9tlzjjjOSWBii3HVDz3tVLElxcd-db52spXHJvj74TQgOvGWvJAOaC6aubEfFVYfL_HT4pJNHdu-JFRzP9sF-3a3-9MLY3VPwz7hoSF3rk9tMDYcWlFP4FqGA_qnNT_Q0_8wObnBcpb-GcaR-syorKbg1G7WFsQy8uVKeRa9vAW6m8mCojrWK3L8GusVC1bHYxRAmYLi2HOhjmMoEP1IOutlSc8XxwqcHA4i9aVdUh1abWLhb2_DoFaT5rn8tMF7LGYzReVmji0JzZd7tY8NgjjNVMKXhp-a0BPMezwtd3wN_vB_y-IQRqIUDaGuK3kTPGjRMRlXiK1NDXFCd2xXuDTkVM1WJqJlU30IG9ui8eOEmfCpmfFehRZnUlDuiEJeLlEUforsoscNv7M1vKC-2cM1LS_3XxhoTUHwNubt79Dk7D9x4WyBisozZtLa2VSFo6k9uEW9vqpo49iWvZwV8ywmFP-8Oh0XwhrbT_6UsKheLxUyBrPLv7qdnJzHsWwD2QDhOIQBtTYgsRLmAc85S3Uh9o8ikbNx1C-q-B9ZJUGn7EnxBvsGqJCYlxI8nzVtwa_vJ-L-B097k3fv1aOxsbqTc0VD4BV34AGCt-6CpDcw7FzvpxwA
> >
>
> Guy and his ilk are unfortunate cases of confirmation bias, only hearing
> evidence that supports their theory.
>
> The most common cause of whole-species extinctions, speaking as a former
> geneticist with a shelf-full of books and papers on the subject, is not
> resource depletion, but climate change. The most common cause of
> extinctions of local populations (rather than widespread species) is
> competition for resources by more fit variant populations (think
> Neanderthal vs us), and the next is predation to extinction. Resource
> depletion runs a far third (or maybe 4th, after epidemic), and usually
> affects small sub-populations only (think rabbits on a small island). And
> climate change, for local populations (emphasis on local), can be dealt
> with.
>
> Like the joke says, I don't have to outrun the bear--I just need to outrun
> you (okay, not you, but the fools who refuse to do anything because they
> think nothing can be done; which is the point of the joke).
>
> If I were being truly selfish, I'd encourage others to do nothing; it would
> better my own chances to get their stuff when they die off. Hey, maybe
> that's the point of that message!
>
> But most extinctions are an artifact of evolution--the species drift and
> shift over time into a different species, rather than get wiped out. At our
> distance in the fossil record, it just looks like they died without
> offspring, but they had offspring who were subtly different, generation
> after generation. E.g., the dinosaurs are still with us; they just are
> smaller and have feathers now. Humans will probably do something like it,
> as we already have over the last two million years.
>
> Toby
> http://patternliteracy.com
> <
> https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpatternliteracy.com%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR3qNIsosdBKGSdsMVTJ9qER2JIQT_KPNLweIyU9kTKNs8QztxtKWl1p_uE&h=AT2w5NBUTGN6TkQlDa7C5xzWEmHAT8yeRtkizhF3Bcys__mysN0byLN7_dnfW-zLBP9mHpNw24nOIxFJ_jFlVqumt-0Xm4Ij1wG0ur4NhjuwkVZlrCoGaFTy9Z2ftFsESwpgD52KZCcTXTGREc0KAOY_vcvCGRl11kFpP_zT4OCGE2k5ZuNr2hLLafeHRVm-GCgVzIzuRRL4WoRIHbR1bSOoPxbFmQQiJfkL9vzNWDjdegDY0hNpK_rybzizVmXpvoIWwsxHwvfN9gbhy0j5ridrUnLgUMpLqmQfFyKOgNYzjGvgCmiIaBgwsySAJgjh4ugy-L5rOY6bcnZ1Ib4O2UYoIrOGCiTHoOIUWqIeO7RUF2453CXFP9VV8ucBdSBxZJh4sDolMik4W5KTgdZHTHJCtGoJUhzGNb30k0aTLcQgDP-6LkIiDj5MY2Zegi98jKexlhLW8FVq0Y3nentyaXBhEzVo_VokV9Y0pCmdvphf8oYtEobQIpGGC22xsajGfQGbDqh2iw1Aq3PkzEVJJ2qbmpszYBVfn8FHteaqvOIoYpw_jY3ItUQMxPOy7HodVKJy-demxxL_ZIi8KPyEXHoHi-HfjspU5XFvBbj3jRavvUFl31FJdRvFB8LRGoZkVir2jg
> >
>
>
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 10:43 PM, Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Yeah...finally the news is out...something I have been quietly
> > commenting on for a few years now. For many years we talked of "Saving
> > the Planet" but then we realised the planet can do very nicely by itself,
> and always has.
> > The reality is about saving the species...after all there is such a
> > thing as species extinction. And, when we research the reasons for
> > most species extinction it is due to total exploitation of its
> > resources, generally, by itself....so...does that ring a bell. Yeah
> > well its time to start runnin workshops...and we all love
> > workshops....but the next wave of workshops will be on How 2 Bend Over
> > and Kiss Your Arse Goodbye. As Schumacher said...sometime ago...its
> > all too late we are over the tipping point. So not even David
> > Holmgrens scenarios on decline design can save us now. It is suggested
> > that even if we plantedt the world in trees ..over the next five
> > years...it is still too late. Besides the economic policy of
> > Rockerfella and Rothchild who own the world and manipulate every
> > aspect of every ecomomy are not into planting trees so...who wants to
> > come to my next workshop ?. Maybe I should offer this....H2BO&KYAG... at
> the innaugrual Nth American Permaculture Conference...
> > Like to join me on that one Toby or Scoty? ...how about you Skeeta ?.
> > Albert..how about you ?.....Steve Hart
> >
> >
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> <
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> >
> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers
> -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements
> for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible
> human habitat
>
> From Bill Mollison through Dan Hemenway:
>
> On 12 Jun 2001 15:22:35 GMT, in alt.permaculture permacltur at aol.com
> <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>
> (Permacltur) wrote:
>
> Actually, anyone with a permaculture certificate is supposed to
> subscribe to a
> set body of ethics. Here there are from a 1981 Permaculture Design
> Course
> taught by Bill Mollison. They are reprinted in Designing for
> Permaculture,
> Pamphlet VIII of the Permaculture Design Course Series. Since these
> pamphlets
> have been placed in public domain by me (with Mollison's consent),
> they may be
> freely reproduced without copyright violation.
>
>
> PROFESSIONAL PERMACULTURE DESIGNERS' ETHICS
> 1. As a group of designers, we cooperate; we do not compete.
> 2. We do not duplicate each other's work. As far as possible, we
> create and use
> individual designs.
> 3. We care for our clients and are responsible to them.
> 4. The end to which we are working is the reforestation of the Earth
> and the
> restoration of its soils to health.
> 5. We care for the environment and wildlife. In all our design work,
> we side
> with that "super client," Gaia, which is an old Greek word for the
> Mother Earth
> Goddess. Earth was con-ceived of then as a living, thinking organism,
> a
> biological entity.
> 6. We seek the best, the most appropriate energy paths, utiliz-ing
> appropriate
> energy.
> 7. We recycle at the highest level possible. Everything can be a
> resource. You
> must know how to use it. Use what you have. Try to make the least
> change
> produce the most effect.
> 8. A final ethic, which we practice in our community in Tasmania, is
> that we
> divest ourselves of everything surplus to our needs. But we don't ask
> you to do
> that.
>
>
> Dan Hemenway
> Barking Frogs Permaculture Center
>
> From Maddy Harland and Permaculture Magazine:
>
> What Is Permaculture
> https://www.permaculture.co.uk/articles/what-permaculture-part-1-ethics
>
> What is Permaculture - Part 1: Ethics
> Maddy Harland
> Wednesday, 23rd January 2013
> In this first part of 'What is Permaculture', Maddy Harland explains the
> three permaculture ethics - Earth Care, People Care and Fair Share
>
> Permaculture is primarily a thinking tool for designing low carbon, highly
> productive systems but its influence can be very pervasive! What can start
> as a journey towards living a more ecologically balanced lifestyle can go
> far deeper, even transforming our worldview and radically altering
> behaviour. This is the inspirational nature of permaculture, it is a means
> of connecting each of us more deeply to nature’s patterns and wisdom and of
> practically applying that understanding in our daily lives.
>
> The discipline of permaculture design is based on observing what makes
> natural systems endure; establishing simple yet effective principles, and
> using them to mirror nature in whatever we choose to design. This can be
> gardens, farms, buildings, woodlands, communities, businesses, even towns
> and cities. Permaculture is essentially about creating beneficial
> relationships between individual elements and making sure energy is
> captured in, rather than lost from, a system. Its application is only as
> limited as our imaginations.
>
> Permaculture is not just a green way of living or a guiding system of
> ethics, it is a way of designing using nature’s principles as a model;
> ‘bending’ them as much as possible to create fertile, self-reliant,
> productive landscapes and communities. This is what defines permaculture
> and it is uniquely effective and powerful. Where permaculture stands out
> from the crowd as a design system is in its capacity to integrate the
> intellect with ethics. It can teach us to ‘think’ with the heart and
> respond with the head. By combining pragmatism with philosophy, we can
> create a greater synthesis.
>
> The three ethics are: Earth Care, People Care and Fair Shares. They are not
> exclusive to permaculture and were derived from the commonalities of many
> worldviews and beliefs. They are therefore shared by many throughout the
> world. What permaculture does is it makes them explicit within a design
> process; removing them from the realms of philosophy and practically
> rooting them in everybody’s lives. This transforms thinking into doing. It
> is their combined presence within a design that has a radical capacity for
> ecological and social transformation.
> Earth Care
>
> Imagine the originators of permaculture, Bill Mollison and David Holmgren,
> in the 1970s, seeing the devastat-ing effects of a temperate European
> agriculture on the fragile soils of an ancient Antipodean landscape. Like
> the dust bowls of Oklahoma in the 1930s, an alien agriculture has the
> capacity to turn a delicately balanced ecology into desert. Their initial
> response was to design a permanent agriculture with tree crops and other
> perennials inhabiting all the niches, from the canopy to the ground cover
> and below. The soil is left untilled to establish its own robust
> micro-ecology. Key to this is that the land must be biodiverse and stable
> for future generations.
>
> This ethic of Earth Care was the basis of permaculture design, but it was
> bound to grow and pervade all aspects of permaculture... How can we have an
> organic agriculture or horticulture and manage our landscapes to sustain
> themselves over gener-ations on one hand, then consume goods from
> industries managed in ecologically damaging ways on the other? It’s
> pointless designing an organic garden and then buying a gas guzzling car or
> building a house from concrete and steel, when we can use local materials
> with less embodied energy.
>
> The original vision of care for all living and non living things has grown
> to embrace a deep and comprehensive understanding of Earth Care that
> involves many decisions; from the clothes we wear and the goods we buy to
> the materials we use for DIY projects. Though we can’t all build our own
> house or grow all our own food, we can make choices about what and how we
> consume and conserve. Key to this is the understanding that up to one third
> of our ecological footprint is taken up by the food we buy, so even growing
> a small amount in a city allotment or container gar-den can make a
> difference. Permaculture is all about making a difference.
> People Care
>
> Fundamental to permaculture is the concept of Permanent Culture. How can we
> develop a permaculture if our people are expendable, uncared for, excluded?
> People Care asks that our basic needs for food, shelter, education,
> employment and healthy social relationships are met. Genuine People Care
> can-not be exclusive in a tribal sense; there can be no elites here: no
> plutocracies or oligarchies, all members of the community must be taken
> into account. It is a global ethic of Fairtrade and intelligent support
> amongst all people, both at home and abroad.
>
> At the core of People Care is an understanding of the power of community.
> If we can change our lives as individuals and make incremental differences:
> think what we can do as a community! The permaculture designers who helped
> initiate Cuba’s post oil urban agriculture are a good example. They
> mobilised a whole country to become self-reliant. Ecovillages and cohousing
> communities who can significantly reduce their ecological footprint by
> sharing resources are other good examples.
>
> In smaller ways; in our cities, towns and villages, we can all benefit from
> deepening community links. I may not have all the skills to grow all my
> food or eco-renovate my house, for example, but by developing good networks
> I can expand my capacity to live more sustainably and become more
> self-reliant. This is a decentralised, democratic vision of social
> transformation where grass-roots initiatives like the Transition Towns
> movement can begin to plan for a low carbon ‘energy descent’ on a community
> level. There is no time to wait for central government to act, or
> eventually to react.
> Fair Shares
>
> The last ethic synthesises the first two. It acknowledges that we only have
> one earth and we have to share it with all living things and future
> generations. There is no point in designing a sustainable family unit,
> community, or nation whilst others languish without clean water, clean air,
> food, shelter, meaningful employment, and social contact. Since the
> industrialised North uses the resources of at least three earths, and much
> of the global South languishes in poverty, Fair Shares is an
> acknowledgement of this terrible imbalance and a call to limit consumption
> (especially of natural resources) in the North.
>
> Permaculture fundamentally rejects the industrial growth model of the
> global North at the core of its ethics, and aspires to design fairer, more
> equitable systems that take into account the limits of the planet’s
> resources and the needs of all living beings. Whilst these permaculture
> ethics are more like moral values or codes of behaviour, they are not
> enough on their own.
>
> We need the principles of permaculture to provide a set of universally
> applicable guidelines that can be used in designing sustainable systems.
> Otherwise, permaculture becomes merely a lifestyle choice within an
> existing unsustainable system. These principles can be inherent in any
> perma-culture design, in any climate, and on any scale. They have been
> derived from the thoughtful observation of nature, and from earlier work by
> ecologists, landscape designers and environmental science...
>
>
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > Robyn Francis
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
>
>
> --
> Lawrence F. London, Jr.
> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> Avant Geared
> avantgearedshop@gmail.com
> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
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> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>




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