permaculture

[Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>]

On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 11:33 AM, scrooge McDuck <declan@planetmail.net>
wrote:

> On 05/06/2016, 06:36 Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:
>  > Yes, it can be done in the list and use the Google site: search
> function to
> >  locate specific information contained in posts.
> >  Really, that information should be located, copied and placed in an
> easy
> >  access site. A combination of Google Sites,
> >  Google Docs and Google+ would be perfect to archive a diverse array of
> >  information valuable to permaculturists. These three resources can be
> >  interlinked
> >  easily. I have been doing exactly this for years as well as
> >  pumping as much good info into this list's message archives as
> possible.
>
>
> Lawrence, if there's a repository atm of interest to a learner, I'd love
> the link(s). I will even join google+ and somer other of google's spying
> services if I have to to get to it.
> Personally I don't think you are thinking big enough with google docs..
>

I am suggesting doing something usinng free available functional resources
as opposed to find funding and labor to crank up a gigantic global PC info
site. We tried something like that years ago. Money raised was wasted on
programmers who took forever doing nothing that worked and another that did
work
was neglected by users of the wiki and not maintained by its owner; so it
all went offline.
My vision is to create and sustain a global "database" or knowledgebase
that isn't rigid permaculture but collects valuable information that is
useful to the permaculture community. It is part appropriate technology and
part permaculture and part natural agriculture. This effort would seek to
search for and identify, document and preserve global indigenous practices,
from terrace farming in Phillipines to Vietnam to Amish farms in Ohio and
Pennsylvania to survival methods used by people the world over for
millenia, agricultural practices, nutrition, food prep and storage (root
cellars in Russia to Kim Chee fermentation in giant urns in SouthKorea),
architecture from primitive to complex wood and masonry structures, energy
generation, social systems that tie everything together and make it
sustainable, and on ad infinitum. This system would be available to people
using cellphones to desktop computers so they could create, develop
andmaintain their own potin of the database, reporting on the practices in
their own communities and regions. People elsewhere would read this, learn
and use the new information to their own advantage where they live and
work. People in every country in the world would be invited,, urged to
participate and contribute. This is just the way the Internet got started
and became indispensible to so many so quickly, everyone contributed their
valuable
resources to the pool of information that everyone enjoyed. That is how
this list got started along with many other sites.
Have you seen my archive of Bonfils and Hazelip documents, put together
with scans of original documents by Jamie, Soucayrous, a former valued
member of this list's community. Here they are:
souscayrous
souscayrous' biological farming & permaculture collection
<http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/souscayrous>
http://www.ibiblio.org/london/souscayrous/
Collections Emilia Hazelip's Synergistic Agriculture - Collected Papers
<http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/souscayrous/EmiliaHazelip-SynergisticAgriculture>
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/souscayrous/EmiliaHazelip-SynergisticAgriculture
Marc Bonfils' Agricultural Research
<http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/souscayrous/MarcBonfils-AgriculturalResearch>
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/souscayrous/MarcBonfils-AgriculturalResearch
souscayrous' albums (the two above) on PicasaWeb
<http://picasaweb.google.com/souscayrous>
http://picasaweb.google.com/souscayrous

And here is a top notch website at ibiblio created by Ute Bohnsack
Permaculture Online
http://www.ibiblio.org/permaculture-online/
PC Links
http://www.ibiblio.org/permaculture-online/pclinks.html
PC Works
http://www.ibiblio.org/permaculture-online/pcworks.htmlSome Good Examples
of Permaculture

There has been a lot of discussion recently (in January 2002 that is) over
the merits of permaculture and how to measure its success. Conventional
measures such as yields don't really capture the benefits of permaculture
so instead we gathered some messages about some really good examples of
permaculture obtained from a discussion on the subject on the permaculture
mailing list
<http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=permaculture&text_mode=0>
at ibiblio.org <http://www.ibiblio.org/permaculture-online/www.ibiblio.org>.
Below you'll find some of the contributions made in the course of the
discussion.
*Please note that all e-mail addresses contain 'nospam' which you must
delete if you want to contact any of the contributors. This is to stop
e-mail harvesters.*

------------------------------
Richard Morris <webmasternospam@pfaf.org> writes:

"One of the best examples I've seen is a wetland system designed to treat
the waste from a Cider farm in Herefordshire, England. Its a four acre
plot, consisting of lots of ponds and swales and planted with 200 species
and varieties of willows, reeds and other plants. You can see its working
as some very mucky waste is going in one end and at the other end clean
water is coming out the other end. Its also producing a lot of willows for
all the thing willows are good for. It was put together by Jay and Claire
at Biologic design."
------------------------------

Steve Bonney <sustainableearth.stevenospam@verizon.net> writes:

"There are many, many examples of farm features that embrace the principles
of permaculture. Even in Indiana, we have good examples: constructed
wetlands cleaning wastewater from a milkhouse, alleycropping of agronomic
crops between rows of black walnut trees, managed intensive grazing systems
that maintain a permanent crop cover on the soil and increase water
infiltration instead of runoff. These are all features of permaculture, or
rather, demonstrate principles of permaculture.

There are many striking examples of permaculture that have been developed
by listmembers. I don't want to slight anyone, but what Robyn Francis has
built upon the principles of permaculture in a short time is truly amazing
to me."
------------------------------

Toby Hemenway <hemenwaynospam@jeffnet.org> writes:

"The best ones I've seen are: Flowering Tree in New Mexico, Roxanne
Swentzell's place designed by her and Joel Glanzberg. Rox has taken a 1/2
acre of bare gravel desert and, starting with swaling, mulching, and lots
of N-fixers, now has a nearly closed canopy of walnuts, fruit trees,
N-fixing trees, with fantastic habitat and more food and mulch than she can
deal with.

Permaculture Institute of Northern California, Penny Livingston's place, an
acre of suburban jungle with chickens, ducks, and again, more food and
biomass production than she can use. It's got a cob office, and two
load-bearing straw-bale buildings, a marsh and pond system that handles all
the greywater and supports the duck and some irrigation. There's a Bed-and
Breakfast attached, so lots of visitors come away inspired. Too bad Penny
just dropped this list, but she's busy with a thriving design business.

The Bullock's property on Orcas Island, north of Seattle. 10 acres that's
the best developed food forest I've seen, plus several acres of wetland
that has chinampas in it (mostly for wildlife). They hold classes for 3
weeks each summer with 30 students, and there's enough fruit to support
grazing for the whole class the whole time. They're off the grid, and
supported by a nursery business and teaching. These are all very attractive
sites, too.

None of these people are measuring yields, though I think they all have
some idea of rough quantities of certain crops. I'm sure that converting
each property into a conventional, row-crop farm or orchard would generate
more total output (ignoring inputs) than they are currently getting, but at
a severe loss of habitat, multiple function, and education about integrated
systems.

And that reminds me of Jerome Osentowski's Central Rocky Mountain
Permaculture Institute in Colorado. The particular interest here is that
Jerome's income source for about a decade was a many-specied salad-growing
operation he ran in raised beds and two large greenhouses (a real feat,
going year-round at 7000 feet elevation). He sold to tony restaurants in
Aspen. He got sick of the huge amount of work, and demoralized by the vast
quantities of organic matter that he was importing, burning up, and
exporting as C02 and salad. Really high inputs. So he shifted to a food
forest, which is just reaching good production now and supported a lot of
heavy grazing during a class I helped teach there last summer. Again, no
hard data, but his decision to shift from intensive row-cropping to food
forest, and his enormous happiness with the result, is a powerful
statement."
------------------------------
Jerome Osentowski <jeromenospam@crmpi.org> later adds: "Just to add a
little to the current thread regarding yields in the forest garden. We
should not be held to using the same measuring stick that agribusiness and
other market farms have come to use, unless we are to receive the same
subsidies that they're getting.
A few of the additional yields that we have the potential for manifesting
include soil health/building, species diversity and species hardiness. for
example, I have been growing two species of figs, nepalese cactus and
rosemary under one layer of plastic for ten years at 7000 feet. It gets
down to 0 degrees F several times a year in the greenhouse, however, these
species continue to thrive and produce large yields in the spring and
summer. We've also had a few hens that are laying year round, without
supplemental light, heat or commercial laying mesh. Where should we put
these success on the balance sheet that we're talking about? There aren't
enough columns. From my forest garden I am able to set up a very
successful, low-input, edible landscaping nursery which in a few years
should equal the amount of income I've ever made from selling annual salad
greens and herbs with a third of the work. This nursery also connects into
my consulting business and workshops (i.e. - if I travel to durango to do a
forest garden workshop, i carry with me $500 worth of plant material which
either gets bought by the host or workshop participants). The reason is
that I have plant material that's not available in the local nurseries.
There's also the educational component of forest gardens. People would much
rather take a workshop where they can see a maturing forest garden and
directly experience the yields by grazing. The forest garden is also an
integral part of a school edible landscaping project that I'm implementing
in the valley. This winter I've even set up bales of hay throughout the
forest garden and greenhouses for archery, adding another function or yield
to my property.
And how do we measure the spiritual well-being that our gardens provide us?
For me, my garden is a sanctuary and in many ways, that is the most
important yield of all.
This spring we will be releasing a forest garden video featuring crmpi's,
John Cruickshank's and several other forest gardens. The script and
narration is done by Peter Bane and Lauren Swain. This could be considered
yet another yield. In this video, you'll be able to see just how productive
some of these forest gardens can be.
Also, Peter Bane and I have begun the research on a new book on forest
gardening that will address questions of yield and give examples.
If you would like to take a tour of our forest garden, we should have a new
page up on our website <http://www.crmpi.org>in a few days.
If we truly want to measure the value of forest gardening and permaculture
we need to change the way that we measure and define yields."
------------------------------

Maddy Harland <infonospam@permaculture.co.uk> writes:

""The Woodland Way" by Ben Law is full of data. There is also an analysis
of income and pc woodland management which was part of a MSc in the centre
pages. Greg is out of date. We now have lots of post graduate data here
proving pc works (not the wild kind but serious, cool temperate systems
which have been thoroughly researched) and pc design is taught at
university and horticultural colleges."
------------------------------

Graham Burnett <gb0063551nospam@cableinet.co.uk> writes:

"John Comben & Sue Ferguson have compiled reports on Cool Temperate PC
(i.e. UK)."
------------------------------

Chris Dixon <mawddachnospam@gn.apc.org> writes:

"With regards to yield figures, I did collect some basic data which is
available on my web site; http://www.konsk.co.uk/design/argelacs.htm this
is a page on Argel, the wilderness regeneration site and my attempts to
quantify yield there."
------------------------------

Robyn <permednospam@nor.com.au> writes:

"Jarlanbah Pc Community was part of a grazing property - the 55 acres only
yielded the farmer $1200 worth of beef per year. Now there are numerous
half acre private gardens on that same piece of land that harvest well over
$1200 worth of vegetables, fruit and eggs per year each from their half
acre. Plus there's the reduced energy consumption (compared to average
rural residential household), rainwater collection, composting toilets etc
etc. Then there's the 33 acres of community land with rainforest
regeneration along the gully, increased wildlife habitat, populations and
diversity, the woodlots planted with fuel and cabinet timbers, the organic
market garden that supplies our local village stores and on and on.

Here at Djanbung Gardens <http://www.earthwise.org.au/> (was part of the
same grazing property as Jarlanbah) the 5 acres is providing 60% of my food
and food for courses (estimated value $4000), and earns approx $5000
through value-adding (conserves & herbal products, and casual canteen food
sales) and sale of tropical tubers, vegetative propagules and surplus veg.
If the 55 acres of Jarlanbah yeilded the farmer only $1200, then my 5 acres
was probably only worth around $110 a year. Plus there's the educational
income of all the visitors who come here to see a working permaculture
system,and there's the numerous other products harvested, the increase in
biodiversity & wildlife etc etc. Could add sooooo much more and cite
numerous examples of pc successes if I only had the time... I get constant
feedback from former students thanking me and describing their systems, how
much pleasure and production they derive from their permacultures."
...and adds in a further contribution:

"Dr Venkat (did the first PDC in India taught by Bill Mollison & myself)
working a very poor semi-arid zone with around 40 villages set up a
demonstration farm at Pastapur which over the years inspired many local
farmers - he encouraged farmers to convert 10% of their farm a year to
permaculture and discussed with them which strategies would maximise
benefits with minimal input. For many it was simply starting with planting
legumes in non-productive areas for fuel and fodder, and/or planting
coppice legumes, bananas, taro, ginger and other water-loving plants along
the edges of their little open earth irrigation ditches which are otherwise
loosing vaste amounts of water through seepage and evaporation.

His main work however was with the women through the Sangams (village
women's councils). One of the first things was getting kitchen gardens
going - no vegetables were being grown in the villages and many health
problems came from poor nutrition (no fruit or vegetables in the diet). The
sangams also set up micro-banking systems and food co-ops on the village
level. Venkat's assistant, Narsanna, was funded to come to Australia for
IPC in 1996 and told me that they had over 2000 barefoot permaculture
teachers - all village women - engaged in establishing kitchen gardens and
reclaiming wastelands that had formerly been common forest areas cleared by
the government 70 years ago - these women were hand building kilometers of
swales and planting mixed species forests on the barren slopes for food,
fuel, fodder, medicine and craft materials. The women also set up a
building collective and built the houses with local materials.

It is an incredibly empowering story and unfortunately the demonstration
farm and training centre at Pastapur is now closed - not due to any
failures of permaculture but from internal corruption in the umbrella NGO.
The work of the NGO was mainly focused on the farmers growing export crops,
mainly sugar cane, with massive well contruction programmes (resulting in
dramatic depletion of ground water levels), high inputs for fertilisers
etc. The extra income earned by the men tended to support their gambling
and drinking pursuits and didn't trickle down to family health, education
and housing. The NGO received prestigious awards for their impressive
number crunching of hectares put into cane production, tons of fertilisers
imported etc. The work with the women which really had a huge beneficial
impact on village health, education and economic independence of the women
has been largely ignored by award-giving agencies.

By-the-way, the women kept records of the value of vegies harvested from
their little kitchen garden plots - some were harvesting over 200 rupees
worth of vegies a month (they would brag about who grew the most) - this
represented incredible wealth as their wages as labourers was only a few
rupees an hour."
... and later again:
"We have over 20 years of stories of permaculture projects reported in
articles in back issues of PIJ (Permaculture International Journal) - would
be great to get these onto a web site or collated into thematic booklets -
there are still numerous back issues available. There must be many other pc
journals and publications with stories worth following up."
------------------------------

Bob Jacobs <soilfirstnospam@tao.ca> adds

"Examples like the project in India (with Dr.Venkat) is a shining example.
I am aware of it only from the global gardener video, and I often refer to
it. It is an impressive example of one of the right on ways that aid can be
a good thing. I am excited by the people who want to collect all this
information and develop it into a website or publicity materials. This is
spot-on.

So in keeping with that, I would like to mention Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe (ZIM)
is a great countly for permaculture. There's the Fambidzanai (staple food)
edu. center that teaches permaculture, dryland cropping, brick making,
beekeeping, etc. on about 40 acres of land near Harare. I spent 3 weeks
there and watched about 50 rural farmers come (free of charge for them as
they were sponsored) to get training. Most of them were women, which is one
of the first good examples of gender recognition in African Ag. I have
seen. The project is going strong, but facing potential problems as the
land and farming issue heats up in Zimbabwe, lots of donors are pulling
out. Still, they have, through education and seed distribution, touched the
lives of thousands, and improved them.

The same for Zim's Natural farming network, that works as an umbrella to
promote organic ag. and PC to NGO's. They now support a Zimbabwe Institute
of Permaculture, a participatory land use planning group, a PC in schools
group, etc.

Again, the country is full of positive examples.

As for yield research, I am about to return to post graduate school studing
sustainable Ag, and Int. Development. I will be doing my field study on the
nutritional and land use impact of PC systems in "developing" countries.
This is years away, but I will glsdly contribute all my data to any
publicity to help prove the worth of PC."
------------------------------

Sharon Gordon <gordonsenospam@one.net> writes:

"A family turned their lawn into a food producing garden. Their lot is
66x132 feet with a house and garage. From May 2001 to January 2002 they
have harvested over 2300 pounds of food. Info and pictures at
http://www.pathtofreedom.com/facts&stats.htm
It's a mix of permaculture and biointensive.
------------------------------

Ute Bohnsack <sustagnospam@eircom.net> writes:

(In response to a question concerning the somewhat related issue of
organic/biodynamic comparative research:)" for anyone interested in this
topic, the Swiss Institute of Organic Farming <http://www.fibl.ch/> has
done some very interesting work on this front. They have assessed the
long-term agronomic and ecological performance of bio-dynamic and
bio-organic systems in comparison with conventional arable farming systems
in a replicated 21-year field trial study (the famous DOC-trial in
Therwil). Some of their results are given in
http://www.fao.org/organicag/doc/RTS58.pdf and at
http://www.sac.ac.uk/envsci/external/bsss/poster2.htm The general 'gist' of
the results is: "The variety of substrates utilized by soil microorganisms
serves as an indicator of microbial functional diversity, which was higher
in bio-dynamic than in conventional soils. Concomitantly, microbes in the
bio-dynamic soil decomposed added plant material to a higher extent than in
conventional soil with a higher proportion of the plant material being used
for microbial biomass build-up. In conclusion soil quality as indicated by
the abundance and diversity of soil organisms as well as by their activity
tends to be improved under organic agriculture. "

The article Holistic approaches in organic farming research and
development: a general overview <http://www.fao.org/organicag/doc/RTS58.pdf>
by Urs NIGGLI also addresses some of the aspects debated here in relation
to the possibilities of comparing Pc with other systems/paradigms/models,
whatever you want to call them."
More later.


> Permaculture is global, therefore also multilingual. The internet is
> global. It needs to be organised globally and could be funded globally.
>
> What about a single internet site devoted to permaculture which could be
> located in a low overhead location, and funded by small annual donations
> from permaculture organisations. The brunt of payment would be undertaken
> by 1st World countries, of course. There you could host websites, wikis,
> documents, forums, blogs, databases. I suggest leaving most videos on
> YouTube - let Google pay for that bandwidth. An area could be set up where
> PDC Holders could log in and the rest (like myself atm) would be excluded.
> An online PDC, or courses further education for pdc holders could be
> facilitated if required. The possibilities are endless.
>
> You then harness the global enthusiasm and labour instead of having
> everyone nodding while a very few undertake a massive workload, or everyone
> say what should be done, and nothing happens. The Wiki format allows anyone
> registered to edit, and there's a parallel chat page to debate the edits,
> or site policy on that page. Translations of the website & docs might be
> provided by those with the relevant languages. If you want an example of
> what's possible, click on the top right on the word "Languages" on the
> world's most translated website:
>
>  http://www.jw.org
> As you will see, there's currently 815 languages, and I bet there will be
> more next time you check.
>
> A global seed bank could likewise be a huge boon.  No master storehouse is
> required, just that server and loads of little ones. Seed suppliers might
> be verified by their country's permaculture organisation, and then allowed
> free advertising, if they ship to all (or most anyhow, given political
> conflicts) of the world. So I could buy seeds from Pakistan, for example,
> if someone there was selling.  Getting on the web now to Pakistan presents
> a problem - I don't speak Uigur, and don't know either Cyrillic or Arabic
> alphabets.
>
> Permaculture is "Permanent Agriculture, " but many areas outside the core
> permaculture principles are of interest to us. You need an agreed approval
> system for those interests. For example, I imagine most would approve bee
> keeping as a permaculture interest but frown on organic weedkillers as one. 
> A
> financial model of offering commercial opportunity to approved traders in
> return for modest remuneration might make the thing self financing.
>
> The final benefit is perhaps the greatest: Quality Control in documents
> and video would be possible
>




-- 
Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/116100117925365792988/+Avantgeared/posts
https://ello.co/permaculture
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture