permaculture

[Koreen Brennan <koreenbrennan@gmail.com>]

Lawrence, it sounds like a wonderful idea to document the various tools we
have, all in one place. What format do you think would be the best way to
do that? I think of google docs or wiki but there may be something better.
It could just be done on the list if someone wanted to keep track of
things.

Jason, What makes permaculture unique to me are the principles and the
flower - the concept of whole systems regenerative design. Perhaps that
would be a good dialogue to have both here and at the convergence.

We have always intended to get feedback from the community on the design of
the event itself and have begun that process. NAPC's event will run from
Weds - Fri, and BRCC will hold their event on the weekend. We haven't
finalized programming and our feedback loops are wide open.

 Best,

On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 12:38 AM, Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I've been following this thread with interest. I hesitate to comment here
> again, but I admit to having mixed feelings about the NAPC 2 linking forces
> with related groups. It's not that I think permaculture is right and these
> other groups are wrong, or that I don't see integration with other
> groups as valuable. It's exactly as Scott just said, because it's important
> to maintain differences between things that are different sometimes. That's
> actually what diversity in any ecological or social system is about, being
> able to maintain difference without feeling pressure to homogenize as one.
> The strength of interacting with other groups is that there is difference
> between them. NAPC 1 was so powerful because it was an event that allowed
> permaculture to strengthen itself within itself so that it can effectively
> exchange with related groups across differences.
>
> I can understand Scott saying something on this issue. He has been a
> staunch defender of the permaculture approach since his long time with
> Bill. He has seen permaculture convergences internationally have a high
> standard for shared governance and decision making for decades. Those
> shared aspects are what we need to work on if permaculture is going to be a
> "movement". Would it not be best to work on those things as a unique
> grouping of people that we call permaculturists?
>
> Nevertheless, NAPC 2 will be fun and exhilarating in and of itself, but
> Scott's call to have a coming together of "permaculturists" is right on in
> terms of strengthening this unique force in the world. Unfortunately there
> is still little agreement on what makes permaculture unique.
>
> As Koreen said, perhaps this is all in the works for NAPC 2, we just don't
> know the schedule. At the surface though, it looks like the event will have
> added distraction in terms of transition towners and what not. In my
> estimation Scott was just saying, hey it's important that we maintain our
> differences from those other groups. If he didn't who else would've said
> something? Was the comment too harsh? Maybe, but maybe there should have
> been a public comment period to make this important decision. So maybe he
> felt the only way to be heard was to say it with force.
>
> Thank you for speaking up, Scott, continually, even when nobody seems to
> understand.
>
> Jason Gerhardt
>
> On Saturday, June 4, 2016, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org> wrote:
>
> > Please give me a break!  The discussion that transpired from my initial
> > email has nothing to do with my concern about calling a conference on
> > regenerative future a convergence.  I know that email is not the ideal
> > forum
> > for discussion but I know that my writing is not that difficult to
> > comprehend.  Mostly it feels like some game of who is the most
> "politically
> > correct" and I don't really give a shit about winning that title.
> >
> > Let's say that instead of a "permaculture convergence" we were talking
> > about
> > a "family reunion".  Everyone is excited about the reunion; it is a time
> to
> > share our similar experiences and to heal wounds from the past and to
> > explore new possibilities of our common interests.  Unfortunately one
> > family
> > decides that the "Jones" family reunion should include any other family
> > that
> > begins with "J", so they go on the internet and broadcast far and wide
> that
> > the Jones reunion is now the "J" reunion.  Needless to say many of the
> > Jones
> > are upset because they have nothing to say about the reunion at this time
> > because it has been co-opted by one family of Jones who changed the whole
> > program.  It has nothing to do with any animosity toward the "J's" it has
> > to
> > do with common agreements about what the "Jones Reunion" means.
> >
> > I am not particularly interested in integrating with every "J" in the
> phone
> > book, I don't care if we have in common a love of trees, or grass, or
> solar
> > housing.  I don't care if a select few elders of the Jones clan supported
> > the "J" reunion instead of the "Jones" reunion.
> >
> > So, of course we need to work with other groups and need to network with
> > them, if they are an ethical group and I mean in the sense of the
> > permaculture ethics.  We need all hands on deck if we are to survive the
> > payback of our hubristic behavior; that doesn't mean that we don't need
> to
> > occasionally get together as the permaculture family for a little sit
> down
> > and reassessment.
> >
> > Now before someone named "Jones" out there writes an excoriating response
> > to
> > my misuse and miss characterization of the Jones of the world, please
> > accept
> > my apology, it is not personal it could have been Smith, Swartz, Pittman
> or
> > many other names.
> >
> > Also, before we wax too poetic about all of the wisdom and contributions
> of
> > the millennial clan and the other younger members of the permaculture
> > collective, lets have another look at the 7 day PDC, or the franchise
> model
> > of permaculture, or the big is beautiful school of food production, not
> to
> > leave out the idiotic idea of selling and joining forces with Walmart in
> > order to have more clout in the drive for mainstream acceptance.  Each
> and
> > every one of the example listed above have happened and are still
> happening
> > as half baked ideas. That is not to say that change should not happen
> over
> > time as we observe and interact with our environment and each other.  As
> we
> > think of the new paradigm let us not forget that we can't drag the
> > shibboleths from the old and expect new results within the new
> paradigm.  I
> > personally don't think that we are any where near a paradigm shift as
> long
> > as we are still bogged down in an economic system (Capitalism) that
> cannot
> > make the connection of world poverty, war, imprisonment, disease, climate
> > change, overpopulation, malnutrition and etc. to greed.
> >
> > I don't believe that permaculture design ideas were carved in stone
> tablets
> > as they were dictated by Bill Mollison disguised as a burning bush. Nor
> do
> > I
> > think that new ideas, just because they are new, should be embraced over
> > old
> > ideas that still remain the best solutions.  Much of the new ideas I hear
> > lately are either old ideas dressed up in new clothes or are "a one step
> > solution to a two step ditch".
> >
> > I have absolute confidence that I have clarified my position and there
> need
> > be no more discussion over this reunion that has morphed into a political
> > party.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Scott Pittman - Elder Permaculturalist (some might say over the hill
> > Permie)
> >
> >
> >
> > "Death is not the greatest loss in life, the greatest loss is what dies
> > inside us while we live."  - Norman Cousins
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: permaculture [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> > <javascript:;>] On Behalf
> > Of Koreen Brennan
> > Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 6:27 PM
> > To: permaculture
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] North American Permaculture Convergence
> > thisSeptember! Save the dates!
> >
> > Interesting discussion! The principle "Integrate, don't segregate"
> > resonates very deeply with me. Permaculture is whole systems design. As
> > such, it can (and in my view, should) integrate any tool or other system
> > that works to improve the overall design and keep it regenerative. It can
> > take skill to decipher when to use what tool for sure, but I welcome the
> > idea of integrating all great ideas and discoveries into a whole systems
> > design toolbox.
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 8:04 PM, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:41 PM, Georg Parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > 'Reinventing Organizations' can be downloaded as an ebook on
> > > > pay-what-feels-right from http://www.reinventingorganizations.com <
> > > > http://www.reinventingorganizations.com/>, or ordered in print at
> any
> > > > bookstore (ISBN 978-2960133509)
> > > >  It does not contain a simple recipe for our task at hand. But it can
> > > help
> > > > a lot in the mentioned 'some serious training in building
> collaborative
> > > > networks, mentoring, and working with our inner process'.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Thanks, Georg. This would be a valuable route to follow for those
> > > inrterested in contributing to the future of Permaculture.
> > >
> > > an idea:
> > >
> > > 1) Research and document sources of information about Permaculture,
> i.e.
> > > "the science" of Permaculture. Make lists and put this "out there" for
> > > everyone to read.
> > > 2) Those with fixed viewpoints about Permaculture could document this,
> > the
> > > whats whys and wherefores, and "put it out there"
> > > 3) Those with viewpoints that include serious acknowledgment of
> > > particularly valuable viewpoints of others or organizations could
> > document
> > > this and make that available.
> > > Put 1,2,3 together and disseminate this body of work throughout the
> media
> > > used by the world of permaculture and through all PDC's, gatherings,
> > > conventions, workshops and consultations
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Lawrence F. London
> > > lfljvenaura@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> > > https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/116100117925365792988/+Avantgeared/posts
> > > https://ello.co/permaculture
> > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Koreen Brennan
> > http://www.growpermaculture.com
> > http://www.permacultureintl.com
> > http://northamericanpermaculture.org
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-- 
Koreen Brennan
http://www.growpermaculture.com
http://www.permacultureintl.com
http://northamericanpermaculture.org