permaculture

[Bob Waldrop <bob@bobwaldrop.net>]

Another valuable historical testimony.  I have started a file to save 
this kind of thing that seems to pop up occasionally for the sake of 
posterity.  The internet is a great resource, but it is very fragile.  
While we can read clay tablets from ancient Babylon, I have a box of 
floppy diskettes from the 1990s that are useless to me.  Somewhere there 
might be a machine that can read them, but unlikely.  So I will print 
this on acid free paper.  I took a historiography class in my early 
college years and it made me a "hoarder of historical info", lol.  
Eventually my small file of printed emails will find itself into a 
permanent permaculture archive at a university somewhere.  Does anyone 
know of such a place?

Bob Waldrop, Okie City

On 7/31/2015 7:03 PM, HeenanDoherty wrote:
> G’day,
>
> I am working pretty closely (like 5 days a week!) with Andrew Jeeves these days — 
> as you’ve noted Lawrence, he is my partner in producing the ‘Regrarians Handbook’ 
> (2. Geography chapter just released this week — 
> http://www.regrarians.org/product/regrarians-ehandbook-2-geography/ 
> <http://www.regrarians.org/product/regrarians-ehandbook-2-geography/>).
>
> On the Regrarians Facebook group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/Regrarians 
> <https://www.facebook.com/groups/Regrarians>), following the very strong 
> suggestion of Geoff Lawton’s daughter, Bonnie Lawton Freibergs, that Andrew’s 
> involvement in the production of the PDM was relatively minor, we had the following 
> exchange:
>
>   Bonnie Lawton Freibergs <https://www.facebook.com/bonnie.lawtonfreibergs?fref=ufi> "Yes 
> Drew, Andrew, over 2 beyond full-time years, did the designs & illustrations, layout and editing 
> and worked with with Reny and Francis Mollison in pulling the project together with Bill Mollison 
> himself." - Sorry that's not true Darren J. Doherty 
> <https://www.facebook.com/DarrenJDoherty?hc_location=ufi>. Andrew did some of the illustrations 
> yes, but not everything. He did not do the cover, for example, and he was paid very well for the work 
> he did do (two years with full time rate of pay) and that information comes directly from Bill and Lisa 
> OR you could just flip the book open and check the publishing information = COVER ARTWORK: CAROLYN 
> WATSON-PAUL. It's a real shame you feel the need to put down the man that started a movement you now 
> depend on. Bill is a fantastic person who deserves nothing but your respect. I can't speak for Bill and 
> Lisa but if you are trading off their name/book and using false statements as an endorsement of your 
> product, I'm not a solicitor, but you could very well find yourself in an actionable position.
>
> Darren J. Doherty <https://www.facebook.com/DarrenJDoherty?fref=ufi> Thanks Bonnie 
> <https://www.facebook.com/bonnie.lawtonfreibergs?hc_location=ufi>, very interesting 
> indeed and I'll let Andrew Jeeves 
> <https://www.facebook.com/andrew.jeeves.3?hc_location=ufi> speak for himself on the 
> matter's that are around his involvement in the development of the PDM.
>
> Otherwise my signed copy of the PDM contains a different reference toAndrew Jeeves 
> <https://www.facebook.com/andrew.jeeves.3?hc_location=ufi>'s work than yours 
> does.
>
> #Revisionism <https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/revisionism?hc_location=ufi>
>
> Andrew Jeeves <https://www.facebook.com/andrew.jeeves.3?fref=ufi> Hello all. 
> Whilst not wishing to get into a slanging match... the cover Bonnie talks about has 
> been re-done with the same illustration (my work) and the title rearranged. The 
> credit to C. W-P. is probably for the rearrangement of the cover. Whilst putting 
> together the book over a number of years, none of us were paid - we all worked on a 
> shoestring to try and get the book done. We worked full time and it was either go 
> out and get money or do the book. We had to juggle all that. You can quote whoever 
> you like but the arrangement we had and I accepted, was to be paid after the book 
> was printed with a number of books to be sold/distributed as I wished. I have no 
> bad feelings about any of that and we did what we did. The three of us had come 
> from living in Tasmania as part of an intentional community where money was tight 
> and we were used to working in such circumstances. It is clear that the cover 
> attribution has changed based on a rearrangement of the cover in a subsequent 
> edition (the original plates may not have been able to be used). But I did the 
> whole book except for a few lovely illustrations by Jorge Schultz.
>
> And then a reply from Bill’s grandson (Frances Mollison’s son):
>
> Stuart Muir Wilson <https://www.facebook.com/stuart.m.wilson.7?fref=ufi> What is done is done, 
> my mum and dad help publish the first edition of the designers manual,while Grandpa (Bill) traveled 
> to India for his first International PDC withRobyn Francis 
> <https://www.facebook.com/robyn.francis1?hc_location=ufi>. Mum and Dad are happy not being 
> acknowledge or paid and have long let it go. Though their contribution is nothing along side Andrews. 
> I was only a baby at the time and I really enjoy and support Darren 
> <https://www.facebook.com/DarrenJDoherty?hc_location=ufi> and Andrew 
> <https://www.facebook.com/andrew.jeeves.3?hc_location=ufi>work. It was a very hectic time from 
> what I understand. Being the start of a global movement. The PDM was a work of genius. I think 
> respecting ones elders has been one of the better virtues I have been raised with. I look forward to 
> reading the Regrarians handbook chapter 1.
>
> The PDM has evidently gone on to sell over 400,000 copies (for between 
> $80-120) and so in retrospect Andrew (and Frances) would have been wise to 
> have negotiated a better deal at the time — alas they didn’t and that’s the 
> way things go some time.
>
> For the record Andrew and I are 50:50 on the royalties of The Regrarians 
> Handbook — time will tell if it reaches the sales figures of the PDM — but 
> whatever the case I believe in respecting and honouring the work of my 
> collaborators appropriately and from the outset.
>
> Thanks and all the best,
>
> Yours & Growing,
>
> Lisa Heenan, Isaebella Doherty & Darren J. Doherty,
> Directors,
>
> Regrarians Ltd.
>
> CHECK OUT REGRARIANS.ORG <http://regrarians.org/>!!
>
> like us on facebook <http://bit.ly/RegrariansFB>
> join our facebook group <http://bit.ly/RegrariansFBGroup>
> follow us on twitter <http://www.twitter.com/regrarians>
>
> +61 (0) 400.840.845
> +61 (0) 431.444.836
>
> ALL YOUR LAND NEEDS
> #EatBuyGrow • #PlanTrainShow
>
>
>
>
> > On 1 Aug 2015, at 03:37, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Here are links to Andrew Jeeves from a Google search:
> >
> > Andrew Jeeves : Facets.org.au <http://facets.org.au/>
> > www.facets.org.au/andrew-jeeves/ <http://www.facets.org.au/andrew-jeeves/>
> > Andrew Jeeves is a skilled sustainability specialist, with more than 30
> > years' experience on three continents. He is a widely acknowledged trainer
> > and presenter ...
> > Andrew Jeeves | Facebook
> > https://www.facebook.com/andrew.jeeves 
> > <https://www.facebook.com/andrew.jeeves>
> > Andrew Jeeves is on Facebook. Join Facebook to connect with Andrew Jeeves
> > and others you may know. Facebook gives people the power to share and ...
> > Andrew Jeeves Profiles | Facebook
> > https://www.facebook.com/public/Andrew-Jeeves 
> > <https://www.facebook.com/public/Andrew-Jeeves>
> > Facebook
> > View the profiles of people named Andrew Jeeves on Facebook. Join Facebook
> > to connect with Andrew Jeeves and others you may know.
> > Regrarians Handbook | Regrarians
> > www.regrarians.org/regrarian-handbook/ 
> > <http://www.regrarians.org/regrarian-handbook/>
> > Darren has joined forces with 'Permaculture: A Designers' Manual' (1988)
> > Designer, Illustrator & Editor Andrew Jeeves in what promises to be the
> > production of ...
> > Andrew Jeeves profiles | LinkedIn
> > https://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Andrew/Jeeves 
> > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Andrew/Jeeves>
> > View the profiles of professionals named Andrew Jeeves on LinkedIn. There
> > are 8 professionals named Andrew Jeeves, who use LinkedIn to exchange ...
> > PcIntro.htm - Permaculture Activist
> > www.permacultureactivist.net/intro/PcIntro.htm 
> > <http://www.permacultureactivist.net/intro/PcIntro.htm>
> > Artist: Andrew Jeeves). Some History: The word "permaculture" was coined
> > and popularized in the mid 70's by David Holmgren, a young Australian
> > ecologist, ...
> >
> > Reverse image search with Google gave the list at this URL of some sites
> > using Andrew's drawings:
> >
> > https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZiubdhEp7aRuzUpfr3LB8SVMvcXkLQXf4PvyUogd6OaQdzwOID2LhBRPdg36bdAOH1pLnSSBfFuqNAjEAFRP9oQQr1v7R1fdWTQHpTsMa62EMA7p8EnZb8QRn8VloPcBFeiQUE76aLwtrgr1oYqFyRW1_1kJectCFG6DEVnoy1z5uJceds6fThZ7tmQ-OSwHKIpIaLHb-V-S9U8wfpCZpGNvkxDlliYlFAi_1wjGm4Y5EN4mFTeC6lZacllXrZ8U-CkeXeXHVD8pWLn0kupM8NOhBzeHrr_1RV3BulGguPyFxcAYQwQPFQjwn0SVJdnvw_1sgFt8Ngn7YopWNfWpRPZB6dso6-ULYM0gMrxnS2L9K2Enda2e2yqJyUO9VkognzE5fn_1C_1Yto-NwwcccTALjoSO_1AEfQXNtCc4dH1FZjXfRnZY1CyH5BTWSxtBz0GvTJgWCJV1OPMOM21HoI9gtwzQhBBXqR7GBfz9fQQKY7F0N1bl5wn6d_14I9uqYH5FzXNLYD282QhfxUZvjMUar2LfuIjtfbWuyEnOk4BRQ56qz5v5HvJbjlejx4egcGs6lMmJljqi3LeVJUJaryF9T1WkzyCHlZIvZtsAkMVs4qUliIESULNJmTqS9ssH4QtaYPSJCaz-PsT35iMgxfjfbi3InGR1UWiFFFNft1YlETRnCauZQ8rqYK_1VEP080TXW9-5oLg9X6pu8DsM7EZyzif2Sfe2PpPw6Os6c1lCrveP5OfbqJ9Vza25ANfoicANOvJSdAABgy9TViCFv-m9AyI_1PutBgnIPQlpGhHt_1cg3OBUk-9W7yM5EBkfqNkfEzNuwGDIm82apgdrG5EF3T5nB_1vtgVettNPwfdLkUHwvPmA07Ay3pXsp9tQhoxdOt2RLp1xk1MtdXd9XEGDSTLre36YnlOglqbfw-Ncd5PGx3I0ZrkuAyukjceLP7J7qUTd95gP4oJ1SHvwsq6veALkbHox2xa86cys02x7RfW9riHnxMDdKfnN1N93G3Iy1rqHQdpus3-ltdm84U9b2ewS5sjMRKgqTGvD0K4OVz3xLsgnRX1H6AzHRY9ZWU3Ezu50G1FlmgAs-9Ev009fyCBF8jJJdO8EgjQLEqd9KENORbVcDTydaoNRY_1HJn2avEmL4_1eeXX_17uOlqhYm3uduQ4iJQOaXT2bm8ktb-kOip8r0cj4hIpVDVDxteCOOsulSwacr_1G5C-FehggzbzfAAmVbe2LiCIg_1MTcPvZOkzgIpFGrLT4ZypMFUvNSNb1g2QEpdDPWBXmKnRPiKrculkjKZKsfR4OOiSKR7Fe1Omung_1DLoNGlXOuCvwi8oZO9yE1AQ-vr9pPdgvR9aP6vSE5EZdXTDZ4ZpUpL9jN9nIIcHWnNFjWxwSIOnpHHRhkcQPZWSB0G2uyliC_1n5frmADzSpq8VtUUKurIeatGjmewNFeSoW61GeY8KKEGQmS9bQK5yIYErqT-23IEE2woswvtJfqR0QFM-Jme-rCGr41dxVvAhaGVVXnhAIa0&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=608&site=imghp&sa=X&ved=0CBkQ9Q8oAGoVChMI9fGV6vOFxwIVEhqSCh2SrQ4h
> >  
> > <https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZiubdhEp7aRuzUpfr3LB8SVMvcXkLQXf4PvyUogd6OaQdzwOID2LhBRPdg36bdAOH1pLnSSBfFuqNAjEAFRP9oQQr1v7R1fdWTQHpTsMa62EMA7p8EnZb8QRn8VloPcBFeiQUE76aLwtrgr1oYqFyRW1_1kJectCFG6DEVnoy1z5uJceds6fThZ7tmQ-OSwHKIpIaLHb-V-S9U8wfpCZpGNvkxDlliYlFAi_1wjGm4Y5EN4mFTeC6lZacllXrZ8U-CkeXeXHVD8pWLn0kupM8NOhBzeHrr_1RV3BulGguPyFxcAYQwQPFQjwn0SVJdnvw_1sgFt8Ngn7YopWNfWpRPZB6dso6-ULYM0gMrxnS2L9K2Enda2e2yqJyUO9VkognzE5fn_1C_1Yto-NwwcccTALjoSO_1AEfQXNtCc4dH1FZjXfRnZY1CyH5BTWSxtBz0GvTJgWCJV1OPMOM21HoI9gtwzQhBBXqR7GBfz9fQQKY7F0N1bl5wn6d_14I9uqYH5FzXNLYD282QhfxUZvjMUar2LfuIjtfbWuyEnOk4BRQ56qz5v5HvJbjlejx4egcGs6lMmJljqi3LeVJUJaryF9T1WkzyCHlZIvZtsAkMVs4qUliIESULNJmTqS9ssH4QtaYPSJCaz-PsT35iMgxfjfbi3InGR1UWiFFFNft1YlETRnCauZQ8rqYK_1VEP080TXW9-5oLg9X6pu8DsM7EZyzif2Sfe2PpPw6Os6c1lCrveP5OfbqJ9Vza25ANfoicANOvJSdAABgy9TViCFv-m9AyI_1PutBgnIPQlpGhHt_1cg3OBUk-9W7yM5EBkfqNkfEzNuwGDIm82apgdrG5EF3T5nB_1vtgVettNPwfdLkUHwvPmA07Ay3pXsp9tQhoxdOt2RLp1xk1MtdXd9XEGDSTLre36YnlOglqbfw-Ncd5PGx3I0ZrkuAyukjceLP7J7qUTd95gP4oJ1SHvwsq6veALkbHox2xa86cys02x7RfW9riHnxMDdKfnN1N93G3Iy1rqHQdpus3-ltdm84U9b2ewS5sjMRKgqTGvD0K4OVz3xLsgnRX1H6AzHRY9ZWU3Ezu50G1FlmgAs-9Ev009fyCBF8jJJdO8EgjQLEqd9KENORbVcDTydaoNRY_1HJn2avEmL4_1eeXX_17uOlqhYm3uduQ4iJQOaXT2bm8ktb-kOip8r0cj4hIpVDVDxteCOOsulSwacr_1G5C-FehggzbzfAAmVbe2LiCIg_1MTcPvZOkzgIpFGrLT4ZypMFUvNSNb1g2QEpdDPWBXmKnRPiKrculkjKZKsfR4OOiSKR7Fe1Omung_1DLoNGlXOuCvwi8oZO9yE1AQ-vr9pPdgvR9aP6vSE5EZdXTDZ4ZpUpL9jN9nIIcHWnNFjWxwSIOnpHHRhkcQPZWSB0G2uyliC_1n5frmADzSpq8VtUUKurIeatGjmewNFeSoW61GeY8KKEGQmS9bQK5yIYErqT-23IEE2woswvtJfqR0QFM-Jme-rCGr41dxVvAhaGVVXnhAIa0&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=608&site=imghp&sa=X&ved=0CBkQ9Q8oAGoVChMI9fGV6vOFxwIVEhqSCh2SrQ4h>
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com 
> > <mailto:lfljvenaura@gmail.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I love that every one of those drawings is reproduced in violation of
> > > > copyright law. If Andrew Jeeves had a penny from everyone who posted a
> > > > drawing of his illegally, he’d be rich. It is splendid, useful work, for
> > > > sure.
> > > I had a feeling about that when I saw it. The imgur page provided no
> > > credits to the artist who did the work whatsoever. I looked and didn't find
> > > any. Maybe a reverse image search could be done to find an author reference
> > > then post it.
> > > Thanks for letting us know who actually did this excellent work, Toby.
> > > LL
> > >
> > > --
> > > Lawrence F. London
> > > lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> > > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> >
> > --
> > Lawrence F. London
> > lfljvenaura@gmail.com <mailto:lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
> > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ 
> > <https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/>
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