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  • From: Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: [SANET-MG] American Consumers Cynical About 'Organic' Food Label
  • Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 19:07:24 +1200

Thanks LL and interesting debate. I agree that there are in fact many more
dimensions to the life force of the world of soils. It has been and still
is a major challenge for many to recognise the values of biological matter,
humics and composts and microrganisms into soils. But,there are other
critical components too. Minerals are often present but do need to be
stimulated to become active. Rock dust goes a long way to such stimulus. It
seems to be a conveyor of electromagnetic energies which is said to be the
great stimulator. The electrifier. Like watching plant vitality after
rain. Its the electromagmateic emnergy in the rain that adds to the
vitality the stimulus.

Perhaps Diver too has done work on this. I know Glen Atkinson has.

Steve Hart

On 20 May 2015 at 10:56, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Frank Schultz <wb5ayy@aircanopy.net>
> Date: Tue, May 19, 2015 at 6:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] American Consumers Cynical About 'Organic' Food
> Label
> To: SANET-MG@lists.ifas.ufl.edu
>
>
> Kris,
>
> "... but if you don't pay attention to the mineral content of the
> soil/plant, you may be missing a key mineral that is limiting the plant's
> potential. That happens all to often, with the notion floating around that
> all you need is excellent soil life."
>
> EXACTLY!!! QUITE WELL SAID! Conventional wisdom seems to say that lots of
> organic matter with good biological activity is the panacea to growing
> nutrient-dense produce.
>
> We've just come out with a Fruit and Vegetable Mineral Nutrients Analysis
> but here's the problem: Establishing Standards. While we can easily report
> mineral content numbers, we can't tell the client what those numbers should
> be, as we normally can with soils, plants and irrigation water. I've done
> a
> little poking-around (although not exhaustively), trying to find nutrient
> levels in various fruit and vegetable as they existed by no later than the
> early 1950s to form initial benchmarks, without much luck.
>
> To make the problem more interesting, we can't tell the client what the
> mineral content of the produce - fruit / grain - should be at the
> particular
> stage of development, as we can with the plant. There are differences.
>
> While there are a number of references to percentages of [dramatic] decline
> for various elements, I'm having a hard time coming up with the actual
> numbers of the original assays. Further, it appears that some trace
> elements which are now known to be essential or at least beneficial, may
> not
> have been known at the time and were therefore not assayed. Additionally,
> we can now measure down to parts per billion which was not possible back
> then.
>
> Of course, this is an over-simplification, as not many varieties from back
> then are much seen today. The new varieties (not even GM) seem to have
> been
> developed first for yields and other qualities, then maybe for taste.
> Mineral nutritional quality seems to have been little considered, if at
> all.
>
> Additionally, at least some new varieties seem to be unable to take up much
> of certain elements and are intrinsically mineral-deficient (especially
> true
> for GM), regardless of the amounts and forms of the elements applied -
> whether to soil or foliarly. In scanning the material I've seen, this
> seems
> to be particularly true of the grains generally available today.
>
> Our idea is to be able to give the client some approximate benchmark for
> produce mineral nutrition content compared to what he's growing now.
> Perhaps unrealistic and impossible, but will continue poking.
>
> Thanks for your post! Frank-
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group
> [mailto:SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Kris Johnson RR
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 8:53 AM
> To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] American Consumers Cynical About 'Organic' Food
> Label
>
> And of course the reason why consumers might have doubts is because of th
> propaganda from the industry. But there is another issue - certified
> organic
> is not a guarantee of top quality. You can use all the compost in the
> world,
> cover cropping, etc., but if you don't pay attention to the mineral content
> of the soil/plant, you may be missing a key mineral that is limiting the
> plant's potential. That happens all to often, with the notion floating
> around that all you need is excellent soil life.
> Kris
> http://www.mercyviewmeadow.org/Garden/GardeningforMaximumNutrition.htm
>
>
> --
> Lawrence F. London
> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> Ello: @ecoponderosa <https://ello.co/ecoponderosa>
> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> https://sites.google.com/site/venaurafarm/
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--
Kia ora

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
*Ecology Architect*
*Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology.​*
Skype: tipenemanawa
Phone: +64 220 75 62 11

Permaculture Global Design:
www.permacultureglobaldesign.org

The Permaculture College of Europe.
www.permaculturecollege.eu
https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart

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