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  • From: A Sampson-Kelly <april@permaculturevisions.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 131, Issue 20
  • Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 13:42:42 +1100

IPC11 Musings

I will not bore you with the sadness I felt at being in a political environment in a political country nursing a naive hope that we could find widespread solidarity and companionship.
I must point out, however, that the so called "gate crashers" to the event were openly encouraged. Even on the opening day the web page still stated clearly that people could just turn up and pay on the day.
[More fool me, as I had paid 4 months before for a tour that got cut by a day and half and I was offered no refund.]

We are a movement that should be maturing, mastering a degree of organisation and structure, not one that is so easily derailed by chaos.
I absolutely agree, it felt like the Cubans were trying to herd cats.
If I want to herd cats, I will not make them wait 4 hours for lunch queuing in the sun, feed them cabbage every day,
deprive them of sleep by putting 7 people in a room, belting loud Western Music until 3am, keep moving the times and venues of the program so they wander aimlessly around a resort.

yes, I am a grumpy old lady. (I have moved on from ornery to grumpy).
Luckily, I got grumpy enough to ensure that future convergences will work well, they will be inclusive, organised and well supplied.
For Christmas sake - Even a tree knows which way is up.

PS, merry Christmas my old buddy LL
April Sampson-Kelly


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Today's Topics:

1. IPC 11 Cuba Musings + (Steve Hart)
2. Re: IPC 11 Cuba Musings + (Neil Bertrando)
3. Re: IPC 11 Cuba Musings + (Lawrence London)
4. Forest Gardening > Documentary Addict [Robert Hart, his
famous forest garden, Ken Fern of Plants for a Future, a segment
on urban gardening] (Lawrence London)
5. A challenge for the permaculture community. Isaac Asimov's
1964 predictions of life in 2014 are prescient : TreeHugger
(Lawrence London)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 09:59:29 +1300
From: Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
Subject: [permaculture] IPC 11 Cuba Musings +
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<CALkGY+rc+1W==YDgYXrJK5+rM6CnLmUXvQfVCdVnGvc6wRg1uA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

good viewpoints there Scott n Andrew. Some may say you are becoming a
grumpy ol'man there Scott....but I do sympathise with you. Being a PC
purist my self I have commented many a time on the watering down of many
elements of Permaculture. Where many many things toady are called PC which
are very firmly not. So what do we do about it ? Simple, strengthen
every aspect..quite simple in theory. In practice, well quite a strategic
challenge. Is it worth it ? What are the consequences if we do nothing ?
The recent conference series of the European
Permaculture Teachers Network goes a long way to evolving this strategic
journey...perhaps its time Scott, Andrew et al to call a Nth American PC
Teachers convergence and ask delegates from Europe to assist..or otherwise
send a few Nth Americans to the last two conferences in Europe. The last is
in July in Bulgaria in association with the European Conference...any
takers ?...Steve Hart


IPC11 Musings
It had been 3 years since my last visit to Havana and the change was
shocking. Many more automobiles spewing smoke from 1950's models of Ford,
Chevy, Olds, Pontiacs and various other brands was throat tightening and
eye
watering.

I was in Havana for the International Permaculture Convergence. The first
event was a gala dinner in an old estate in the heart of Havana. The place
was packed and there was panic among our hosts from Fundacion Antonio Nunez
de la Naturaleza y el Hombre as the numbers continued to grow and they
scrambled for more place settings, tables, and chairs. The problem was
that
over 140 unexpected guests had arrived who had not RSVPed their intention
to
attend. This set the stage for a chaotic two weeks of trying to
accommodate
25% more people than had been planned for. It was also apparent to me that
most of the attendants of this event were there to party rather than deal
with the many issues facing the rapidly growing International Permaculture
movement.

Permaculturalists from 47 nations descended on Cuba over 400 strong and
overwhelmed the organizational capabilities of our sponsors.

The conference was held in a large Havana hotel and the speakers were
translated into English and Spanish for those of us who are language
challenged. For the most part the speakers were English speakers who
represented both the well known and the unknown in the permaculture world.
I was disappointed in the selections as I was hoping to hear from Latin
American permaculture which represents an incredible array of projects. A
majority of the presenters were from the U.S.A. and Australia. I was most
impressed by Tierra Martinez an Argentinian permaculturalist who presented
on projects both urban and rural that are making a difference in the lives
of thousands of people through the work of his organization Instituto Na
Luum.

While the presentations of Albert Bates, Robyn Francis, Andy Goldring, and
surprise guest Darren Doherty were very educational and exciting I was
still left with the question of where are the Latinos.

My sympathy and admiration went to the translators who were faced with
multiple English and Spanish idioms and with speakers who seemed unaware
that they needed to take into account that their words were being converted
to another language. The translators continued with us for the rest of the
journey, through the convergence and on the tour and did an incredible job
against all odds. Herding cats comes to mind.

The conference began what was to be a pattern of standing in line for
meals,
and standing in line for accommodations; sometimes for over 2 hours! This
was again the surprise guests who suddenly materialized the night before
the
conference. This of course threw the whole schedule of speakers off and
Roberto Sanchez, known for his role in the video "Building Community", was
doing everything except pulling out his hair, and he may have done some of
that.

Our final day in Havana was an urban tour of permaculture projects. I had
seen most of the projects three years ago so I only went on the morning
half
of the tour. I once again was disappointed in most of what I saw. This
was definantly not permaculture! Sorry. It reminded me of the ubiquitous
"herb spiral" which monotonously decorates every first permaculture design.
I saw keyhole gardens where the key hole was too small to accommodate the
knees of the gardener, paths that were considerable larger than the
vegetable beds, and a shocking lack of food amidst the ornamentals. I
certainly appreciated the proud gardeners as they took us through their
home
gardens pointing out the salient parts but it seemed more beginning "master
gardener" level than having been designed.

Is this sour grapes? I don't think so, I am attempting to inject a little
realism into an event that took thousands of dollars, and gallons of fuel
to
bring to fruition and I think that we should be more mindful of our purpose
and more in engaged in the process than I feel was exhibited during this
IPC.

I spent a lot of time reflecting on what is being taught, in the world at
large, as permaculture? Is there any continuity in permaculture design
from
country to country, how subjective is what is being taught, following the
whims and limited knowledge of the teachers. This is an important thread
to
pursue and I will continue this journal of my Cuban trip in the next
segment
"the convergence" where I discuss my presentations of "Capitalism and
Permaculture", "Permaculture Professional Standards", and "Developing a
"Permaculture International Aid and Relief Group". These are all subjects
dear to my heart and, much to my surprise, were well received.

Lest I sound dour and curmudgeonly I would like to say over all my
experience was a very positive one and this was the result of many
conversations with new and old friends who all share my concerns regarding
the state of the world and permaculture.

Scott Pittman
www.permaculture.org



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:53:17 -0800
From: Andrew Millison <amillison@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] IPC11 Musings
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<
CAKo1s6EAuxqFDaced0qg8GZy9VE8eoRuyW6P-KeFQQyf_1-hXg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Thanks for the reflections, Scott, and the honest assessment of the first
part of the event from your perspective. I found the sub-theme of the whole
trip very interesting: how our small society dealt with the logistical
chaos, which you are attributing to the 140 event crashers which pushed the
planning and infrastructure over the edge.

I'm not refuting your statements, just adding a bit to what you said.

As far as the Havana tours, one thing that I found very valuable was seeing
how the Permaculture flag was being waved at multiple locations within
neighborhoods, and imagined how many places it was seeping in to the fabric
of the community that we couldn't see. Also where our guides explained how
the government had officially recognized the value of sites, and gave them
official recognition and protection, showed the level of support they
garnered. I would put my own neighborhood here in Corvallis, Oregon up
against them in a contest of urban food production density. (shouldn't we
have "most food grown in the city" contests?). But it was fascinating to
observe their "activist" Permaculture systems, with signage and intentional
community education.

The 20 acre urban farm we saw that day had many interesting layers to it as
well, from the mosaic of fields with productive hedgerows surrounding, to
their large scale worm composting system, to the community enterprise piece
that employed many with a diversity of types of yields.

I reflected at the time that it would have been very hard for it to not be
an amazing experience, simply for the opportunity to meet and connect with
so many wonderful people and all of the communication on so many topics
that occurred. I didn't know what to expect or have previous trips to
compare it with, so seeing it all with new eyes, I took the value that I
could from each facet.

I appreciate hearing what Scott and others have to say about their
experience. It's good to get the collective memory out there to get the
most learning from it that we can.

Thanks,

Andrew

Kia ora
[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
Ecology Architect
skype: stevenlawrencehart


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 18:08:09 -0800
From: Neil Bertrando <neilbertrando@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] IPC 11 Cuba Musings +
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<CAFJJ-qMHkPhwG1kUBwqYmHL4tws2Nau0RGM_qqgUhsmvfrzyDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Thanks for the suggestion and connections Steve.

I think Skeeter has put out feelers for N Am convergences before and he's
been instrumental in organizing the Inland NW PC convergences the past 3
years. There are several annual bioregional convergences and conferences
here in N Am each year of varying quality, duration and content.

I'm grateful for the work everyone is doing in their various areas. It's
not a simple matter to pull together a national network or professional
organization type of conference. I'm excited to see more and a continued
broadening and credibility building set of gatherings to help us all
increase our skill sets, competencies and connections to each other to
support the work that's needed.



On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Steve Hart
<stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>wrote:

good viewpoints there Scott n Andrew. Some may say you are becoming a
grumpy ol'man there Scott....but I do sympathise with you. Being a PC
purist my self I have commented many a time on the watering down of many
elements of Permaculture. Where many many things toady are called PC which
are very firmly not. So what do we do about it ? Simple, strengthen
every aspect..quite simple in theory. In practice, well quite a strategic
challenge. Is it worth it ? What are the consequences if we do nothing ?
The recent conference series of the European
Permaculture Teachers Network goes a long way to evolving this strategic
journey...perhaps its time Scott, Andrew et al to call a Nth American PC
Teachers convergence and ask delegates from Europe to assist..or otherwise
send a few Nth Americans to the last two conferences in Europe. The last is
in July in Bulgaria in association with the European Conference...any
takers ?...Steve Hart


IPC11 Musings
It had been 3 years since my last visit to Havana and the change was
shocking. Many more automobiles spewing smoke from 1950's models of
Ford,
Chevy, Olds, Pontiacs and various other brands was throat tightening and
eye
watering.

I was in Havana for the International Permaculture Convergence. The
first
event was a gala dinner in an old estate in the heart of Havana. The
place
was packed and there was panic among our hosts from Fundacion Antonio
Nunez
de la Naturaleza y el Hombre as the numbers continued to grow and they
scrambled for more place settings, tables, and chairs. The problem was
that
over 140 unexpected guests had arrived who had not RSVPed their intention
to
attend. This set the stage for a chaotic two weeks of trying to
accommodate
25% more people than had been planned for. It was also apparent to me
that
most of the attendants of this event were there to party rather than deal
with the many issues facing the rapidly growing International
Permaculture
movement.

Permaculturalists from 47 nations descended on Cuba over 400 strong and
overwhelmed the organizational capabilities of our sponsors.

The conference was held in a large Havana hotel and the speakers were
translated into English and Spanish for those of us who are language
challenged. For the most part the speakers were English speakers who
represented both the well known and the unknown in the permaculture
world.
I was disappointed in the selections as I was hoping to hear from Latin
American permaculture which represents an incredible array of projects.
A
majority of the presenters were from the U.S.A. and Australia. I was
most
impressed by Tierra Martinez an Argentinian permaculturalist who
presented
on projects both urban and rural that are making a difference in the
lives
of thousands of people through the work of his organization Instituto Na
Luum.

While the presentations of Albert Bates, Robyn Francis, Andy Goldring,
and
surprise guest Darren Doherty were very educational and exciting I was
still left with the question of where are the Latinos.

My sympathy and admiration went to the translators who were faced with
multiple English and Spanish idioms and with speakers who seemed unaware
that they needed to take into account that their words were being
converted
to another language. The translators continued with us for the rest of
the
journey, through the convergence and on the tour and did an incredible
job
against all odds. Herding cats comes to mind.

The conference began what was to be a pattern of standing in line for
meals,
and standing in line for accommodations; sometimes for over 2 hours!
This
was again the surprise guests who suddenly materialized the night before
the
conference. This of course threw the whole schedule of speakers off and
Roberto Sanchez, known for his role in the video "Building Community",
was
doing everything except pulling out his hair, and he may have done some
of
that.

Our final day in Havana was an urban tour of permaculture projects. I
had
seen most of the projects three years ago so I only went on the morning
half
of the tour. I once again was disappointed in most of what I saw. This
was definantly not permaculture! Sorry. It reminded me of the ubiquitous
"herb spiral" which monotonously decorates every first permaculture
design.
I saw keyhole gardens where the key hole was too small to accommodate the
knees of the gardener, paths that were considerable larger than the
vegetable beds, and a shocking lack of food amidst the ornamentals. I
certainly appreciated the proud gardeners as they took us through their
home
gardens pointing out the salient parts but it seemed more beginning
"master
gardener" level than having been designed.

Is this sour grapes? I don't think so, I am attempting to inject a
little
realism into an event that took thousands of dollars, and gallons of fuel
to
bring to fruition and I think that we should be more mindful of our
purpose
and more in engaged in the process than I feel was exhibited during this
IPC.

I spent a lot of time reflecting on what is being taught, in the world at
large, as permaculture? Is there any continuity in permaculture design
from
country to country, how subjective is what is being taught, following the
whims and limited knowledge of the teachers. This is an important thread
to
pursue and I will continue this journal of my Cuban trip in the next
segment
"the convergence" where I discuss my presentations of "Capitalism and
Permaculture", "Permaculture Professional Standards", and "Developing a
"Permaculture International Aid and Relief Group". These are all
subjects
dear to my heart and, much to my surprise, were well received.

Lest I sound dour and curmudgeonly I would like to say over all my
experience was a very positive one and this was the result of many
conversations with new and old friends who all share my concerns
regarding
the state of the world and permaculture.

Scott Pittman
www.permaculture.org



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:53:17 -0800
From: Andrew Millison <amillison@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] IPC11 Musings
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<
CAKo1s6EAuxqFDaced0qg8GZy9VE8eoRuyW6P-KeFQQyf_1-hXg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Thanks for the reflections, Scott, and the honest assessment of the first
part of the event from your perspective. I found the sub-theme of the
whole
trip very interesting: how our small society dealt with the logistical
chaos, which you are attributing to the 140 event crashers which pushed
the
planning and infrastructure over the edge.

I'm not refuting your statements, just adding a bit to what you said.

As far as the Havana tours, one thing that I found very valuable was
seeing
how the Permaculture flag was being waved at multiple locations within
neighborhoods, and imagined how many places it was seeping in to the
fabric
of the community that we couldn't see. Also where our guides explained
how
the government had officially recognized the value of sites, and gave
them
official recognition and protection, showed the level of support they
garnered. I would put my own neighborhood here in Corvallis, Oregon up
against them in a contest of urban food production density. (shouldn't we
have "most food grown in the city" contests?). But it was fascinating to
observe their "activist" Permaculture systems, with signage and
intentional
community education.

The 20 acre urban farm we saw that day had many interesting layers to it
as
well, from the mosaic of fields with productive hedgerows surrounding, to
their large scale worm composting system, to the community enterprise
piece
that employed many with a diversity of types of yields.

I reflected at the time that it would have been very hard for it to not
be
an amazing experience, simply for the opportunity to meet and connect
with
so many wonderful people and all of the communication on so many topics
that occurred. I didn't know what to expect or have previous trips to
compare it with, so seeing it all with new eyes, I took the value that I
could from each facet.

I appreciate hearing what Scott and others have to say about their
experience. It's good to get the collective memory out there to get the
most learning from it that we can.

Thanks,

Andrew

Kia ora
[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
Ecology Architect
skype: stevenlawrencehart
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 22:17:29 -0500
From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] IPC 11 Cuba Musings +
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<CA+j2Q+BHnFGqpcq8m=de_NxGQtYNzvfkbHMVJXmv_5pmGceuog@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Steve Hart
<stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>wrote:

good viewpoints there Scott n Andrew. Some may say you are becoming a
grumpy ol'man there Scott....but I do sympathise with you. Being a PC
purist my self I have commented many a time on the watering down of many
elements of Permaculture. Where many many things toady are called PC which
are very firmly not. So what do we do about it ? Simple, strengthen
every aspect..quite simple in theory. In practice, well quite a strategic
challenge. Is it worth it ? What are the consequences if we do nothing ?
The recent conference series of the European
Permaculture Teachers Network goes a long way to evolving this strategic
journey...perhaps its time Scott, Andrew et al to call a Nth American PC
Teachers convergence and ask delegates from Europe to assist..or otherwise
send a few Nth Americans to the last two conferences in Europe. The last is
in July in Bulgaria in association with the European Conference...any
takers ?...Steve Hart


This is a wonderful suggestion, Steve, good timely advice.
A limited number of people will go long distances to attend
convergences though for the teachers and consultants it should be viewed as
part of the cost of doing business, i.e. a necessity;
still some will not be able to attend. What about everyone else? potential
teachers, designers, consultants as well as serious practitioners
to name a few. Couldn't the PC professionals add to their websites a
feature that serves to get people together and network them to move closer
to reaching the goals you have described
and link one professional's site to another. For solidarity! For the future
of permaculture as WE envision it.
The poseurs (you know who they are) are using the work of legitimate
permaculture community members to further their own personal causes without
any thought of the future of the movement
and making strides to bring permaculture to the lives of as many people as
possible around the world. You and I and others know the potential but
making it happen is another matter.

What about creating some kind of online portal that serves as a magnet to
attract newbies and those already immersed in the practice of permaculture,
one that brings them to one place where they can then locate and visit
other sites, forums, blogs, a hotlinked online encyclopedia of permaculture
connecting anyone and everyone serious about this discipline to the
resources, individuals and organizations they are interested in.

LL






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