permaculture

[A Sampson-Kelly <april@permaculturevisions.com>]

IPC11 Musings

I will not bore you with the sadness I felt at being in a political 
environment in a political country nursing a naive hope that we could 
find widespread solidarity and companionship.
I must point out, however, that the so called "gate crashers" to the 
event were openly encouraged. Even on the opening day the web page still 
stated clearly that people could just turn up and pay on the day.
[More fool me, as I had paid 4 months before for a tour that got cut by 
a day and half and I was offered no refund.]

We are a movement that should be maturing, mastering a degree of 
organisation and structure, not one that is so easily derailed by chaos.
I absolutely agree, it felt like the Cubans were trying to herd cats.
If I want to herd cats, I will not make them wait 4 hours for lunch 
queuing in the sun, feed them cabbage every day,
deprive them of sleep by putting 7 people in a room, belting loud 
Western Music until 3am, keep moving the times and venues of the program 
so they wander aimlessly around a resort.

yes, I am a grumpy old lady. (I have moved on from ornery to grumpy).
Luckily, I got grumpy enough to ensure that future convergences will 
work well, they will be inclusive, organised and well supplied.
For Christmas sake - Even a tree knows which way is up.

PS, merry Christmas my old buddy LL
April Sampson-Kelly


--

*April S-Kelly*
Additional Email: aprilskellymtkembla@gmail.com
Write: Permaculture Visions Cordeaux Rd Mt Kembla Village 2526 Australia
Facebook: Permaculture Visions Fan Page
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On 23/12/2013 4:00 AM, permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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>     1. IPC 11 Cuba Musings + (Steve Hart)
>     2. Re: IPC 11 Cuba Musings + (Neil Bertrando)
>     3. Re: IPC 11 Cuba Musings + (Lawrence London)
>     4. Forest Gardening > Documentary Addict [Robert Hart, his
>        famous forest garden, Ken Fern of Plants for a Future, a segment
>        on urban gardening] (Lawrence London)
>     5. A challenge for the permaculture community. Isaac Asimov's
>        1964 predictions of life in 2014 are prescient : TreeHugger
>        (Lawrence London)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 09:59:29 +1300
> From: Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
> Subject: [permaculture] IPC 11 Cuba Musings +
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <CALkGY+rc+1W==YDgYXrJK5+rM6CnLmUXvQfVCdVnGvc6wRg1uA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> good viewpoints there Scott n Andrew. Some may say you are becoming a
> grumpy ol'man there Scott....but I do sympathise with you. Being a PC
> purist my self I have commented many a time on the watering down of many
> elements of Permaculture. Where many many things toady are called PC which
> are very firmly not. So what do we do about it ?    Simple, strengthen
> every aspect..quite simple in theory. In practice, well quite a strategic
> challenge. Is it worth it ? What are the consequences if we do nothing ?
> The recent conference series of the European
>   Permaculture Teachers Network goes a long way to evolving this strategic
> journey...perhaps its time Scott, Andrew et al to call a Nth American PC
> Teachers convergence and ask delegates from Europe to assist..or otherwise
> send a few Nth Americans to the last two conferences in Europe. The last is
> in July in Bulgaria in association with the European Conference...any
> takers ?...Steve Hart
>
>
> IPC11 Musings
> > It had been 3 years since my last visit to Havana and the change was
> > shocking.  Many more automobiles spewing smoke from 1950's models of Ford,
> > Chevy, Olds, Pontiacs and various other brands was throat tightening and
> > eye
> > watering.
> >
> > I was in Havana for the International Permaculture Convergence.  The first
> > event was a gala dinner in an old estate in the heart of Havana.  The place
> > was packed and there was panic among our hosts from Fundacion Antonio Nunez
> > de la Naturaleza y el Hombre as the numbers continued to grow and they
> > scrambled for more place settings, tables, and chairs.  The problem was
> > that
> > over 140 unexpected guests had arrived who had not RSVPed their intention
> > to
> > attend.  This set the stage for a chaotic two weeks of trying to
> > accommodate
> > 25% more people than had been planned for.  It was also apparent to me that
> > most of the attendants of this event were there to party rather than deal
> > with the many issues facing the rapidly growing International Permaculture
> > movement.
> >
> > Permaculturalists from 47 nations descended on Cuba over 400 strong and
> > overwhelmed the organizational capabilities of our sponsors.
> >
> > The conference was held in a large Havana hotel and the speakers were
> > translated into English and Spanish for those of us who are language
> > challenged.  For the most part the speakers were English speakers who
> > represented both the well known and the unknown in the permaculture world.
> > I was disappointed in the selections as I was hoping to hear from Latin
> > American permaculture which represents an incredible array of projects.  A
> > majority of the presenters were from the U.S.A. and Australia.  I was most
> > impressed by Tierra Martinez an Argentinian permaculturalist who presented
> > on projects both urban and rural that are making a difference in the lives
> > of thousands of people through the work of his organization Instituto Na
> > Luum.
> >
> > While the presentations of Albert Bates, Robyn Francis, Andy Goldring, and
> > surprise guest  Darren Doherty were very educational and exciting I was
> > still left with the question of where are the  Latinos.
> >
> > My sympathy and admiration went to the translators who were faced with
> > multiple English and Spanish idioms and with speakers who seemed unaware
> > that they needed to take into account that their words were being converted
> > to another language.  The translators continued with us for the rest of the
> > journey, through the convergence and on the tour and did an incredible job
> > against all odds.  Herding cats comes to mind.
> >
> > The conference began what was to be a pattern of standing in line for
> > meals,
> > and standing in line for accommodations; sometimes for over 2 hours!  This
> > was again the surprise guests who suddenly materialized the night before
> > the
> > conference.  This of course threw the whole schedule of speakers off and
> > Roberto Sanchez, known for his role in the video "Building Community", was
> > doing everything except pulling out his hair, and he may have done some of
> > that.
> >
> > Our final day in Havana was an urban tour of permaculture projects.  I had
> > seen most of the projects three years ago so I only went on the morning
> > half
> > of the tour.   I once again was disappointed in most of what I saw.  This
> > was definantly not permaculture! Sorry.  It reminded me of the ubiquitous
> > "herb spiral" which monotonously decorates every first permaculture design.
> > I saw keyhole gardens where the key hole was too small to accommodate the
> > knees of the gardener, paths that were considerable larger than the
> > vegetable beds, and a shocking lack of food amidst the ornamentals.  I
> > certainly appreciated the proud gardeners as they took us through their
> > home
> > gardens pointing out the salient parts but it seemed more beginning "master
> > gardener" level than having been designed.
> >
> > Is this sour grapes?  I don't think so, I am attempting to inject a little
> > realism into an event that took thousands of dollars, and gallons of fuel
> > to
> > bring to fruition and I think that we should be more mindful of our purpose
> > and more in engaged in the process than I feel was exhibited during this
> > IPC.
> >
> > I spent a lot of time reflecting on what is being taught, in the world at
> > large, as permaculture?  Is there any continuity in permaculture design
> > from
> > country to country, how subjective is what is being taught, following the
> > whims and limited knowledge of the teachers.  This is an important thread
> > to
> > pursue and I will continue this journal of my Cuban trip in the next
> > segment
> > "the convergence" where I discuss my presentations of "Capitalism and
> > Permaculture", "Permaculture Professional Standards", and "Developing a
> > "Permaculture International Aid and Relief Group".  These are all subjects
> > dear to my heart and, much to my surprise, were well received.
> >
> > Lest I sound dour and curmudgeonly I would like to say over all my
> > experience was a very positive one and this was the result of many
> > conversations with new and old friends who all share my concerns regarding
> > the state of the world and permaculture.
> >
> > Scott Pittman
> > www.permaculture.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:53:17 -0800
> > From: Andrew Millison <amillison@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] IPC11 Musings
> > To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >          <
> > CAKo1s6EAuxqFDaced0qg8GZy9VE8eoRuyW6P-KeFQQyf_1-hXg@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Thanks for the reflections, Scott, and the honest assessment of the first
> > part of the event from your perspective. I found the sub-theme of the whole
> > trip very interesting: how our small society dealt with the logistical
> > chaos, which you are attributing to the 140 event crashers which pushed the
> > planning and infrastructure over the edge.
> >
> > I'm not refuting your statements, just adding a bit to what you said.
> >
> > As far as the Havana tours, one thing that I found very valuable was seeing
> > how the Permaculture flag was being waved at multiple locations within
> > neighborhoods, and imagined how many places it was seeping in to the fabric
> > of the community that we couldn't see. Also where our guides explained how
> > the government had officially recognized the value of sites, and gave them
> > official recognition and protection, showed the level of support they
> > garnered. I would put my own neighborhood here in Corvallis, Oregon up
> > against them in a contest of urban food production density. (shouldn't we
> > have "most food grown in the city" contests?). But it was fascinating to
> > observe their "activist" Permaculture systems, with signage and intentional
> > community education.
> >
> > The 20 acre urban farm we saw that day had many interesting layers to it as
> > well, from the mosaic of fields with productive hedgerows surrounding, to
> > their large scale worm composting system, to the community enterprise piece
> > that employed many with a diversity of types of yields.
> >
> > I reflected at the time that it would have been very hard for it to not be
> > an amazing experience, simply for the opportunity to meet and connect with
> > so many wonderful people and all of the communication on so many topics
> > that occurred. I didn't know what to expect or have previous trips to
> > compare it with, so seeing it all with new eyes, I took the value that I
> > could from each facet.
> >
> > I appreciate hearing what Scott and others have to say about their
> > experience. It's good to get the collective memory out there to get the
> > most learning from it that we can.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > Kia ora
> [image: Picture]
> *Steve Hart*
> Ecology Architect
> skype: stevenlawrencehart
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 18:08:09 -0800
> From: Neil Bertrando <neilbertrando@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] IPC 11 Cuba Musings +
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <CAFJJ-qMHkPhwG1kUBwqYmHL4tws2Nau0RGM_qqgUhsmvfrzyDQ@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks for the suggestion and connections Steve.
>
> I think Skeeter has put out feelers for N Am convergences before and he's
> been instrumental in organizing the Inland NW PC convergences the past 3
> years.  There are several annual bioregional convergences and conferences
> here in N Am each year of varying quality, duration and content.
>
> I'm grateful for the work everyone is doing in their various areas.  It's
> not a simple matter to pull together a national network or professional
> organization type of conference.  I'm excited to see more and a continued
> broadening and credibility building set of gatherings to help us all
> increase our skill sets, competencies and connections to each other to
> support the work that's needed.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Steve Hart
> <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > good viewpoints there Scott n Andrew. Some may say you are becoming a
> > grumpy ol'man there Scott....but I do sympathise with you. Being a PC
> > purist my self I have commented many a time on the watering down of many
> > elements of Permaculture. Where many many things toady are called PC which
> > are very firmly not. So what do we do about it ?    Simple, strengthen
> > every aspect..quite simple in theory. In practice, well quite a strategic
> > challenge. Is it worth it ? What are the consequences if we do nothing ?
> > The recent conference series of the European
> >   Permaculture Teachers Network goes a long way to evolving this strategic
> > journey...perhaps its time Scott, Andrew et al to call a Nth American PC
> > Teachers convergence and ask delegates from Europe to assist..or otherwise
> > send a few Nth Americans to the last two conferences in Europe. The last is
> > in July in Bulgaria in association with the European Conference...any
> > takers ?...Steve Hart
> >
> >
> > IPC11 Musings
> > > It had been 3 years since my last visit to Havana and the change was
> > > shocking.  Many more automobiles spewing smoke from 1950's models of
> > Ford,
> > > Chevy, Olds, Pontiacs and various other brands was throat tightening and
> > > eye
> > > watering.
> > >
> > > I was in Havana for the International Permaculture Convergence.  The
> > first
> > > event was a gala dinner in an old estate in the heart of Havana.  The
> > place
> > > was packed and there was panic among our hosts from Fundacion Antonio
> > Nunez
> > > de la Naturaleza y el Hombre as the numbers continued to grow and they
> > > scrambled for more place settings, tables, and chairs.  The problem was
> > > that
> > > over 140 unexpected guests had arrived who had not RSVPed their intention
> > > to
> > > attend.  This set the stage for a chaotic two weeks of trying to
> > > accommodate
> > > 25% more people than had been planned for.  It was also apparent to me
> > that
> > > most of the attendants of this event were there to party rather than deal
> > > with the many issues facing the rapidly growing International
> > Permaculture
> > > movement.
> > >
> > > Permaculturalists from 47 nations descended on Cuba over 400 strong and
> > > overwhelmed the organizational capabilities of our sponsors.
> > >
> > > The conference was held in a large Havana hotel and the speakers were
> > > translated into English and Spanish for those of us who are language
> > > challenged.  For the most part the speakers were English speakers who
> > > represented both the well known and the unknown in the permaculture
> > world.
> > > I was disappointed in the selections as I was hoping to hear from Latin
> > > American permaculture which represents an incredible array of projects.
> >   A
> > > majority of the presenters were from the U.S.A. and Australia.  I was
> > most
> > > impressed by Tierra Martinez an Argentinian permaculturalist who
> > presented
> > > on projects both urban and rural that are making a difference in the
> > lives
> > > of thousands of people through the work of his organization Instituto Na
> > > Luum.
> > >
> > > While the presentations of Albert Bates, Robyn Francis, Andy Goldring,
> > and
> > > surprise guest  Darren Doherty were very educational and exciting I was
> > > still left with the question of where are the  Latinos.
> > >
> > > My sympathy and admiration went to the translators who were faced with
> > > multiple English and Spanish idioms and with speakers who seemed unaware
> > > that they needed to take into account that their words were being
> > converted
> > > to another language.  The translators continued with us for the rest of
> > the
> > > journey, through the convergence and on the tour and did an incredible
> > job
> > > against all odds.  Herding cats comes to mind.
> > >
> > > The conference began what was to be a pattern of standing in line for
> > > meals,
> > > and standing in line for accommodations; sometimes for over 2 hours!
> >   This
> > > was again the surprise guests who suddenly materialized the night before
> > > the
> > > conference.  This of course threw the whole schedule of speakers off and
> > > Roberto Sanchez, known for his role in the video "Building Community",
> > was
> > > doing everything except pulling out his hair, and he may have done some
> > of
> > > that.
> > >
> > > Our final day in Havana was an urban tour of permaculture projects.  I
> > had
> > > seen most of the projects three years ago so I only went on the morning
> > > half
> > > of the tour.   I once again was disappointed in most of what I saw.  This
> > > was definantly not permaculture! Sorry.  It reminded me of the ubiquitous
> > > "herb spiral" which monotonously decorates every first permaculture
> > design.
> > > I saw keyhole gardens where the key hole was too small to accommodate the
> > > knees of the gardener, paths that were considerable larger than the
> > > vegetable beds, and a shocking lack of food amidst the ornamentals.  I
> > > certainly appreciated the proud gardeners as they took us through their
> > > home
> > > gardens pointing out the salient parts but it seemed more beginning
> > "master
> > > gardener" level than having been designed.
> > >
> > > Is this sour grapes?  I don't think so, I am attempting to inject a
> > little
> > > realism into an event that took thousands of dollars, and gallons of fuel
> > > to
> > > bring to fruition and I think that we should be more mindful of our
> > purpose
> > > and more in engaged in the process than I feel was exhibited during this
> > > IPC.
> > >
> > > I spent a lot of time reflecting on what is being taught, in the world at
> > > large, as permaculture?  Is there any continuity in permaculture design
> > > from
> > > country to country, how subjective is what is being taught, following the
> > > whims and limited knowledge of the teachers.  This is an important thread
> > > to
> > > pursue and I will continue this journal of my Cuban trip in the next
> > > segment
> > > "the convergence" where I discuss my presentations of "Capitalism and
> > > Permaculture", "Permaculture Professional Standards", and "Developing a
> > > "Permaculture International Aid and Relief Group".  These are all
> > subjects
> > > dear to my heart and, much to my surprise, were well received.
> > >
> > > Lest I sound dour and curmudgeonly I would like to say over all my
> > > experience was a very positive one and this was the result of many
> > > conversations with new and old friends who all share my concerns
> > regarding
> > > the state of the world and permaculture.
> > >
> > > Scott Pittman
> > > www.permaculture.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:53:17 -0800
> > > From: Andrew Millison <amillison@gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [permaculture] IPC11 Musings
> > > To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > > Message-ID:
> > >          <
> > > CAKo1s6EAuxqFDaced0qg8GZy9VE8eoRuyW6P-KeFQQyf_1-hXg@mail.gmail.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> > >
> > > Thanks for the reflections, Scott, and the honest assessment of the first
> > > part of the event from your perspective. I found the sub-theme of the
> > whole
> > > trip very interesting: how our small society dealt with the logistical
> > > chaos, which you are attributing to the 140 event crashers which pushed
> > the
> > > planning and infrastructure over the edge.
> > >
> > > I'm not refuting your statements, just adding a bit to what you said.
> > >
> > > As far as the Havana tours, one thing that I found very valuable was
> > seeing
> > > how the Permaculture flag was being waved at multiple locations within
> > > neighborhoods, and imagined how many places it was seeping in to the
> > fabric
> > > of the community that we couldn't see. Also where our guides explained
> > how
> > > the government had officially recognized the value of sites, and gave
> > them
> > > official recognition and protection, showed the level of support they
> > > garnered. I would put my own neighborhood here in Corvallis, Oregon up
> > > against them in a contest of urban food production density. (shouldn't we
> > > have "most food grown in the city" contests?). But it was fascinating to
> > > observe their "activist" Permaculture systems, with signage and
> > intentional
> > > community education.
> > >
> > > The 20 acre urban farm we saw that day had many interesting layers to it
> > as
> > > well, from the mosaic of fields with productive hedgerows surrounding, to
> > > their large scale worm composting system, to the community enterprise
> > piece
> > > that employed many with a diversity of types of yields.
> > >
> > > I reflected at the time that it would have been very hard for it to not
> > be
> > > an amazing experience, simply for the opportunity to meet and connect
> > with
> > > so many wonderful people and all of the communication on so many topics
> > > that occurred. I didn't know what to expect or have previous trips to
> > > compare it with, so seeing it all with new eyes, I took the value that I
> > > could from each facet.
> > >
> > > I appreciate hearing what Scott and others have to say about their
> > > experience. It's good to get the collective memory out there to get the
> > > most learning from it that we can.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > Kia ora
> > [image: Picture]
> > *Steve Hart*
> > Ecology Architect
> > skype: stevenlawrencehart
> > _______________________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 22:17:29 -0500
> From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] IPC 11 Cuba Musings +
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <CA+j2Q+BHnFGqpcq8m=de_NxGQtYNzvfkbHMVJXmv_5pmGceuog@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Steve Hart 
> <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > good viewpoints there Scott n Andrew. Some may say you are becoming a
> > grumpy ol'man there Scott....but I do sympathise with you. Being a PC
> > purist my self I have commented many a time on the watering down of many
> > elements of Permaculture. Where many many things toady are called PC which
> > are very firmly not. So what do we do about it ?    Simple, strengthen
> > every aspect..quite simple in theory. In practice, well quite a strategic
> > challenge. Is it worth it ? What are the consequences if we do nothing ?
> > The recent conference series of the European
> >   Permaculture Teachers Network goes a long way to evolving this strategic
> > journey...perhaps its time Scott, Andrew et al to call a Nth American PC
> > Teachers convergence and ask delegates from Europe to assist..or otherwise
> > send a few Nth Americans to the last two conferences in Europe. The last is
> > in July in Bulgaria in association with the European Conference...any
> > takers ?...Steve Hart
>
> This is a wonderful suggestion, Steve, good timely advice.
> A limited number of people will go long distances to attend
> convergences though for the teachers and consultants it should be viewed as
> part of the cost of doing business, i.e. a necessity;
> still some will not be able to attend. What about everyone else? potential
> teachers, designers, consultants as well as serious practitioners
> to name a few. Couldn't the PC professionals add to their websites a
> feature that serves to get people together and network them to move closer
> to reaching the goals you have described
> and link one professional's site to another. For solidarity! For the future
> of permaculture as WE envision it.
> The poseurs (you know who they are) are using the work of legitimate
> permaculture community members to further their own personal causes without
> any thought of the future of the movement
> and making strides to bring permaculture to the lives of as many people as
> possible around the world. You and I and others know the potential but
> making it happen is another matter.
>
> What about creating some kind of online portal that serves as a magnet to
> attract newbies and those already immersed in the practice of permaculture,
> one that brings them to one place where they can then locate and visit
> other sites, forums, blogs, a hotlinked online encyclopedia of permaculture
> connecting anyone and everyone serious about this discipline to the
> resources, individuals and organizations they are interested in.
>
> LL