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  • From: "John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ho' lotta hype...Top Secret Water
  • Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 22:07:28 +0100


You may very well be right Lawrence but could I make a general remark please.
The argument you use against Glen Atkinson is what they call "ad hominem" and is terefore against the rules of any discussion build on logical argument.
You can have a mass murdering serial pedophyle but maybe he knows something about something that you don't know and maybe he is right on this point. If we want to learn something and have a sensible discussion about the point in question we should not discard whatever a person has to say just because you feel he is a bad person. You may be right that he is a fascist pig but that does not mean that he does not know his stuff or has anything to say that others could benefit from.

Thing is that this "ad hominem" argument is very popular these days and used by all sides. Also against you and me. There are quite a few people who think that permaculturists are close to terrorists and they are therefore not going to listen to anything any of us has to say.

In the Middle Ages before you could start at a European University you got a year long grinding in the rules of logic discussion. We have made a huge step backwards since those days in logical discussions and that is not a good thing. And it is most often used by TPTB.

And before you ask, If I had been in Argentine during the dirty war I would have had a serious chance of getting killed myself. Does not mean that you have to be less critical if I say something about something else.

John

On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 1:10 AM, Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>wrote:


both for our benefit. Glen Atkinson taught us that ( www.bdmax.co.nz)...it. If we want to learn something>> gets deep er and deeper but its not really top secret ...its working with
nature not against it...but one of our principles


Do you like fascist pigs? Glen Atkinson is a wolf in sheep's clothing, no
more a biodynamicist or
natural agronomist than your typical teaparty extremist; he is a fascist
pig. Sorry about that.
I found out one evening when in conversation with him on Facebook. The
subject was the trial of one of Pinochet's
thug generals or some other fascist nonentty. I can reconstruct our
conversation fairly accurately. I couldn't believe
what he was saying. If he were in Argentina at the time of the dirty war he
would have taken the wrong side when
the hippies, leftist activists and other alternative intellectuals were
facing genocide. If he had not become actively involved he would have
supported what they were doing. This is why I have little respect for most
of the biodynamics movement. There are shining
lights like Hugh Lovel and Jean Paul Courtens and many of the Europeans.
Permaculture is just as deep a discipline,
probably deeper, and I think that will become obvious as time passes.

So, maybe take a closer look at that fellow and what he speaks with his
forked tongue.
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