permaculture

[Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

Lol, Jason, cult out of permaculture. :-)  Good idea. I do try to use the 
term as an adjective, as in "permaculture design." If there isn't a design 
element with the result of design implementation being truly sustainable or 
better yet, regenerative, it isn't permaculture. It's possible to do a design 
in phases, or to do a partial permaculture design. There are a whole lot of 
us, including me (since I just moved) that have partially completed 
permaculture designs that are a work in progress. Are those "permaculture 
sites"? Not yet! I have always emphasized the difference between using 
permaculture principles and techniques to reduce pollution and increase 
yield, and creating an actual "permaculture" site which is producing more 
than it is consuming and is using only renewable, non-toxic/polluting energy 
to do it while caring for the people involved or connected to the site and 
using surplus to create even more regeneration and yield. 
 
Koreen Brennan

www.growpermaculture.com
www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition


________________________________
 From: Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org 
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Toward Financial Permaculture: New Farms in 
theOldSystem
 
Koreen,
I totally agree.

I wanted to point out that the difference is whether we call that other
work "permaculture", be it Mcdonaugh or Paul's example of the farmer and
herbicides. I don't actually need "permaculture" to demonstrate to a farmer
the disastrousness of using herbicides, that's just soil science. So just
because the farmer stops using herbicides he can say he practices
"permaculture"? I just think that dumbs down what permaculture is. When I
do a large farm design I tell clients that I am using permaculture as my
design process, not that I am helping them somehow become "permaculture". I
think we really need to be careful how we use this term we all cherish. To
me it is better as a verb in the above instances as opposed to a noun.
Permaculture design is applied, utilized, practiced as a design discipline.
The farm is the farm, why does it need to be a "permaculture" farm. I think
we will get a lot further by refraining from attaching the term
"permaculture" to too many things. It's a cool term, but it doesn't have to
be the moniker that we all wear on our sleeves for everything we are
interested in. We are verging on cult status when we do this. It's time to
take the "cult" out of "permaculture", figuratively that is.

The only reason I'm even commenting on this is because I care about the
term. I think permaculture is unique and I see it being eroded into all
kinds of general ecological, conservation, farming, and countercultural
things. We loose a lot when we do this, and we loose the power that
permaculture has. We have lost many good words already, and I hate to see
"permaculture" going down that road.

On to celebrate the end of a good year!
-- 
Jason Gerhardt
Designer and Educator

----
I don't think that ethics always happens naturally, but I think it can
happen gradiently. So Paul, your farmer with herbicides could stop using
1/2 of them or 3/4 and see that he can survive, and then look at how he
could stop using any. That is a legitimate ethics path, in my mind. I think
that permies who judge him for that have probably never worked with a
farmer to get a design implemented and so are totally unreal about it. The
solution would be to get them to confront a real design and hit the walls
they're going to hit and come out the other end being more real about what
it takes to get a true, regenerative design fully implemented from both a
visible and invisible structure angle.

In McDonaugh's case, I would say that is a slippery slope because there is
so much time spent patting each other on the back for a design that is not
whole systems (as you point out Scott) that they never get around to asking
how they can do it better next time. A few corporations are actually asking
the question of how they can go zero waste, zero fossil fuel energy, and
real fair share and decent working conditions for their employees. It's
hard,  because the vast majority in that world don't agree with that game
yet. So the more we can do to popularize the game of being ethical, the
better. I try to make it at least a little bit fun to be ethical because it
is.

Koreen Brennan
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 22:57:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ethical energy use - what is your favorite
        "better than PV panels?"
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I hear you - these are great, as long as you have a stream and enough 
altitude change to have meaningful flow/speed. 
 
How about in a typical suburban neighborhood with no streams? Fuel cell? 
Geothermal? Co-generation? Some kind of solar or wind I haven't heard of yet? 
Something that is affordable for most people? And you don't have to rip up 
the foundation of your house to do it? 


________________________________
 From: Jeremy Baker <childscrick@yahoo.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ethical energy use - what is your favorite 
"better than PV panels?"
 
Hi, 
Pico hydro and micro hydro IMHO. Run-of-stream system returns water to 
stream. Very good return-on-investment and power 24/7. 
Jeremy Baker

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 31, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com> wrote:

> What is the most ethical, least toxic and polluting energy production 
> method that you know of that is available for individual use? I understand 
> that reducing energy needs is the top of the list and first action. But say 
> that you have a laptop you need to power, or need to pump rainwater 
> somewhere, or have a community center where you are having a conference on 
> how to get permaculture design implemented in a city, etc. What state of 
> the art energy production devices that are currently available have people 
> seen in use or are using? I'm not talking about PV panels, but fuel cell, 
> cogeneration, high efficiency wind, etc. This is one area where I feel the 
> weakest as far as having really ethical solutions to stop using fossil 
> fuels. PV panels only go so far and dont' have the most optimum life cycle 
> possible, by any means. I would love to hear what others have seen on this 
> subject. 
> 
> It seems like this is such a key area to address since fossil fuel energy 
> production creates so much of the ecosystem destruction. 
>  
> Koreen Brennan
> 
> www.growpermaculture.com
> www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
> www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ethical energy use - what is your favorite
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On 1/1/2013 1:57 AM, Cory Brennan wrote:
> I hear you - these are great, as long as you have a stream and enough
> altitude change to have meaningful flow/speed.
>
> How about in a typical suburban neighborhood with no streams? Fuel
> cell? Geothermal? Co-generation? Some kind of solar or wind I haven't
> heard of yet? Something that is affordable for most people? And you
> don't have to rip up the foundation of your house to do it?

Co-generation:

Have a woodlot, coppiced or cut trees for fuel feeding a wood-fired
boiler/DHW generator/bake oven providing steam to a steam engine running
a generator charging batteries during hours solar panels or wind turbine
isn't charging them. Use 12/24 VDC current for lights or appliances or a
phase converter to supply 120VAC to appliances such as well pump,
refrigeration, aquaculture/hyrdoponics/aquaponics/irrigation systems.
Very high efficiency, high heat, forced air fed wood burners can be
constructed that would quickly generate steam while providing DHW for
storage in an insulated tank. Combine PV panels, with wind turbines with
steam engine powered electrical generator for a whole systems approach
to of the grid power.