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  • From: "John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Will you help describe this pattern?
  • Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 01:13:07 -0000


We tried K9ns and cats but cats here are usually more into birds than rats. And K9ns are easier to work on a barge, which is a small Island really than on a diverse farm with a very interesting relief and lots of shelter. Our dogs are trained to never go in the gardens unless we command them to. They do a lot more damage than rats or the odd hare.
We have no snakes here and almost the only plentiful rat eaters are escaped mink which are a problem when you have poultry. Rats are canibals and will eat dead rats, diluting the aspartame in the environment even further.

I agree with your misgivings on diet coke but think that our way with the drink bottles reduces the problem a good bit. And as I said, about two liters per year is all it took us to get on top of a desperate situation.
john

On a side note, a few K9 breeds have been developed in history for
maintaining rat populations at a minimum on boats and barges. European
breeds, such as the Schipperke, have been around since the mid to late
1800's which was a very significant era of the transworld shipping trade
and large infestations of brown rats on a global scale due to those trades.

Rats are tough, social, and have few successful predators. I like the
artificial sweetener idea in the Diet Coke, but it is a poison and the long
term downstream effect could impact another predator or scavenger species
in the neighborhood. (not to mention giving $$ to Coca Cola Co.).

Anyways, my two bits. Good luck.

John


On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 4:02 PM, John D'hondt <dhondt@eircom.net> wrote:


Rats are athletes. I have not found a way to create barriers that works. In
the past we had rats eating every last pea of what would normally have
given
us about 100 kilos of dried peas in less than a week. We trapped them and
shot them and driven to desperation I electrified all access routes. They
then climbed a 15 foot elderberry tree and jumped from there over all the
electric cables into the peas (ten foot high). Other years they would eat
all the skirret then all the beetroot.
We found that rats exterminate one crop at a time. Only when there is
nothing left of one crop do they move on to something else. Even if there
is
no food in your barn, they will get it outside and drag it to their nests.
Even if they have to climb up a concrete wall 4 meters high.

What did cure our rat problem was diet coke and it's artificial sweeteners.
I have just three pet drink bottles hanging up around the gardens and about
2 liters of diet coke will do us for a year. It is not the gas for I refill
the bottles only when they get empty. Rats love it, mice or voles don't
touch it. And the rat numbers are completely down.
john

> This year I've been dealing with rats in my barnyard. I'm not
> looking for help dealing with that problem: I'm trying to articulate
> the pattern I'm seeing within the rubric of permaculture.
>
> The specific scenario:
>
> I have a pest[1] (brown rats) that have taken up residence in my
> barn. I have used traps as a control[2], and I've recently taken
> to hunting them too. As I've hunted them, I noticed that they've
> used the barnyard environment in a way I hadn't considered/been
> aware of. Building paths and finding routes. Many of these paths
> emerged because of design decisions I'd made: they favor walls,
> narrow passages, and dark places.
>
> I'm working to introduce more barriers[3] to prevent access to
> areas I'd rather they not be in. But this feels underwhelming as
> a description of what is happening at the system-level.
>
> In the permaculture rubric, what am I doing? What pattern is this?
> What phrase describes this activity? Again, not looking for advice
> on rats: I'm looking for hooks I can use to describe these
> interactions and help model the patterns.
>
> Thank you!
>
> -Alan
>
> 1: http://sunflowerriver.org/wiki/Pest
> 2: http://sunflowerriver.org/wiki/Control
> 3: http://sunflowerriver.org/wiki/Barrier
> --
> .i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du
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