permaculture

[venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>]

On 10/8/2012 9:09 AM, KAKerby@aol.com wrote:
> But have you actually LOOKED at any of the research being done?  As I
> pointed out, lots and lots of university research being conducted right now 
> in a
> lot of different aspects of this approach, and yes nutrient density of the
> resulting plant tissue is right up there.

This is good to know. I will try and Google this subject and see what I 
can come up with. Search term might be "nutrient density in food crops 
grown in aquaponic systems" and repeat with hydroponic substituted for 
aquaponic. Google Scholar articles would be desirable to find. I will 
post any interesting findings.

> Brix measurements can be as
> high  or higher than the finest organic stands of soil-based agriculture for
> leaf  tissue.  Complex nutrient density is present if it's present in the
> system,  and missing if it's missing from the system

See my last post about hydroponic cropping in perforated containers with 
high quality garden soil (formulated with the right permeability) 
irrigated with aquaculture water purified in a wetlands zone growing 
aquatic plants to feed tilapia. I assume that many nutrients and 
minerals essential for robust plant growth will exist in water flowing 
through the entire colletion of systems, dissolved or microscopic. 
Minerals in the soils in the containers will be made plant available 
through the action of microorganisms, in situ, then be leached into the 
water flowing into protein and aquatic plant (feedstock) production zones.

Thanks very much for the update, Kathryn. I really like long posts, the 
longer the better and the more often the better. BTW all posts sent to 
this list are mirrored at Google resources: a blog and a discussion 
group, all read only. Your posts really get out to the world this way 
and become even more useful reference material for those who need such 
things.

(just like soil-based ag,
> where  crops forcibly grown on tired out soils are going to be missing a lot
> of  nutrients).  It's assumptions like this that are so very limiting.   The
> same assumptions were made about organic ag not 10 years ago - "it's no
> more  nutritious so what's the point"?   If the nutrients are in the system,
> the plants will pick them up.  If the nutrients aren't there, they  won't.
> That's not a function of whether the plants are growing in a soil  or
> soilless media.  That's a question of whether the nutrients are in the  
> system as a
> whole.  I've seen a lot of dead soils on working farms.

In an aquaponics, aquaculture or hydroponics system nutrients have to 
come from somewhere. The primary source, as I see it, could be the soil 
in the vegetable growing containers which leaches nutrients into the 
water which is used throughout the "whole system". Many of these 
nutrients will be retained and recycled within systems with nitrogenous 
materials as byproducts also recycled. Water in aquaponics systems 
growing shrimp, clams, fish, etc. could be periodically sieved and used 
to feed the soil growing vegetables and other crops in perforated 
conttainers. Chitin from insect bodies are an essential building block 
in achieving high quality soil.

Glomalin is important too. Here are fascinating articles on this 
subject. This simply points out the importance of microbiology and 
finely tuned, highly functional soil ecosystems when growing food crops 
in aquaculture/aquaponic/hydroponic systems. I posted to this list and 
to the marketfarming list a large string of reference material and 
research articles on this subject about a month ago. These are well 
worth reading, appropriate for the context of this particular thread.
Just a sample of what Google has to offer: Glomalin:

Glomalin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomalin
Glomalin is a glycoprotein produced abundantly on hyphae and spores of 
arbuscular mycorrhizal (AM) fungi in soil and in roots. Glomalin was 
discovered in ...
Glomalin: Hiding Place for a Third of the World's Stored Soil Carbon
www.ars.usda.gov/is/ar/archive/sep02/soil0902.htm
Oct 18, 2004 – Glomalin is causing a complete reexamination of what 
makes up soil organic matter. It is increasingly being included in 
studies of carbon ...
Glomalin Is Key To Locking Up Soil Carbon
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080629075404.htm
Jul 2, 2008 – Glomalin, the substance coating this microscopic fungus 
growing on a corn root, can keep carbon in the soil from decomposing for 
up to 100 ...
[PDF]
What is Glomalin - Agricultural Research Service
www.ars.usda.gov/.../54450000Glomalin/Glomalinbrochure.p...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
DOES GLOMALIN HOLD YOUR FARM TOGETHER? Plant, roots ... produce glomalin 
to coat hyphae to keep water and nutrients from getting lost on the way ...
Glomalin analysis
invam.caf.wvu.edu/methods/mycorrhizae/glomalin.htm
Glomalin is a glycoprotein produced abundantly on hyphae and spores of 
arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi in soil and in roots. Shortly after we Sara 
Wright and I ...
Images for glomalin
 - Report images

[PDF]
Arbuscular mycorrhizae, glomalin, and soil aggregation
dbs.umt.edu/.../Rillig%202004%20Can%20J%20S%20Sc.pdf
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
by MC Rillig - Cited by 181 - Related articles
This review focuses on glomalin-related soil protein (GRSP), 
operationally ... glomalin (particularly at the biochemical level), it 
is concluded that research on ...
[PDF]
Glomalin in Ecosystems - Duke Forest FACE site
face.env.duke.edu/PDF/sssaj71-07a.pdf
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
by KK Treseder - Cited by 53 - Related articles
environmental controls on glomalin are not well understood. In addition, 
the ... have found evidence that glomalin may be related somewhat to a 
heat shock ...
Glomalin What Is It . . . and What Does It Do? - Bioenergy Articles ...
www.thebioenergysite.com/.../glomalin-what-is-it-and-what-d...
Glomalin is a glycoprotein, a sugar-protein compound that might trigger 
the formation of soil.

  I'd rather take
> food for my table from a system I know is balanced and working  with healthy
> plants and fish, rather than produce from those over-mined soils  with a
> history of herbicide and pesticide reliance.  And a lot of folks  have no way
> to measure how tired out the soils were, which produced the food  they eat.
> Presuming that soil-based is better, is ignoring all the  problems in
> soil-based farming.

I agree completely.

> And before folks start talking about "yea, but you have to introduce those
> nutrients, so it's artificial", I would point out that's true for many of

That;'s not an issue with a natural aquaponics system. The goal is 
natural. Fukuoka's Natural Farming principles can be applied here too.

> the  world's soils as well.  We have to supply a variety of trace minerals
> such as selenium to our soils, to bring them into balance and keep them
> there.  Does that make our soil-based farming unnatural?  Does that  make
> farming in whole regions with depleted soils, such as Australia, simply
> unnatural? Or is that simply a reflection that no soil, anywhere, is perfectly
> balanced?  And even if our soils are perfectly balanced for that particular  
> crop
> at that particular time, they won't stay that way.  We'll have to
> introduce some method of bringing those withdrawn trace nutrients back to our
> soils, as they are removed by the crops and the crops removed from the system
> (ie, eaten or sold).  So from that standpoint, soil-based and soilless ag  are
> the same.  The methods used to introduce those trace nutrients are the
> same as well.  Both systems have the choice to use natural or artificial
> supplementation.  With aquaponics however, you have immediate negative  
> feedback
> if the supplementation is too harsh, because the health of the fish  will
> suffer.  In soil-based ag, many times the farmer has no indication of
> long-term issues at all.  The folks downstream might not know it for  years or
> decades to come.
>
> Another objection to aquaponics is that folks believe it's missing the rich
>   web of microscopic life that is found in healthy soils.  Again, have you
> actually LOOKED for information on that?  One of the most exciting
> developments for both hydroponics and aquaponics is that proactive 
> innoculation
> with beneficial bacterial and/or fungal colonies works just as well in 
> soilless
>   ag as it does in soil-based ag.

I wonder how AACT could be used. This is aerated, activated compost tea. 
I'll bet it has a use in an aquaponics system.

> That discovery was made over a decade
> ago,  and has become a fundamental part of disease prevention and nutrient
> update for  those growers who are interested in really giving their plants all
> the tools  available.  Much like it's been a tool for soil-based growers for
> millenia,  but not everyone takes advantage of that option.  If that sounds
> artificial, does that mean soil-based ag should stop innoculating the soil
> for  things like peas and lentils, alfalfa and beans?  It's more familiar
> to us because it's been a part of soil-based ag for generations.  But don't
> assume hydroponics/aquaponics doesn't have that option too.  It does, and
> it's being used just as beneficially.
>
> To make blanket statements about what aquaponics can and cannot do, or
> produce, or solve, without actually working with this approach or reading the
> research materials and day-to-day working results for those using this
> system,  is head-in-the-sand behavior.  If you doubt something about it (or 
> any
> topic), GO LOOK for information on it.  You might be surprised at what you
> find.
> Kathryn Kerby
> frogchorusfarm.com
> Snohomish, WA

Excellent stimulus to go forth and do research, apply it and develop 
working systems for food and profit.