permaculture

[loren luyendyk <loren@sborganics.com>]

What about invasive animals?  If we are to wage war against plants, should we 
not look at eradicating rats, cats, snails, and humans too?  The latter 
possibly being the most invasive species of all, and responsible for the most 
widespread eradication/subjugation of other species.

In my experience, "invasive" plants/animals are (usually) present to fill a 
niche that is open because of another species being removed/weakened.  For 
example, malva on roadsides where there are no plants, groundsquirrels where 
there no bobcats, and "civilized" humans where the natives were once.  

In the case of malva, it is doing a service by covering bare soil, as most 
plants deemed invasive are doing.  Can't quite figure out the benefits of the 
other circumstances...

Loren Luyendyk
ISA Certified Arborist #WE 7805A
Permaculture Design & Education
(805) 452-8249
www.sborganics.com
www.globalpermaculture.com
www.surferswithoutborders.org





> From: santoyo@earthflow.com
> Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 12:11:38 -0800
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Invasive Plants revisited - comments welcome
> 
> *Invasion Biology: Critique of a Pseudoscience
> By David Theodoropoulos.*
> *
> "In this provocative work, Mr. Theodoropoulos uses a combination of
> detailed bibliographic research, precise language, and skillful polemics to
> analyze invasion biology as a pseudoscience... it is an organic work of
> great analytical force and bibliographic intensity.... The credibility of
> the book's arguments is based in fundamental evolutionary ecology....
> Critics may dispute some of his analyses or judgments, but their own
> credibility would need to be measured against Mr. Theodoropoulos's
> analytical rigor, clarity of expression, and transparency of agenda.... Mr.
> Theodoropoulos' ideas are, in this book, ecologically coherent, precisely
> conceived, and effectively articulated."* *—Dr. D.L. Scarnecchia,
> Washington State University. Book Review, Rangelands 26(2), April 2004.*
> 
> *"Now it is invasion biologists' turn to face misguided invective. [The
> book is] faulty... inconsistent... [has] an inadequate evolutionary
> framework... incendiary... disingenuous... inflammatory... spurious, highly
> politicized... invective, masquerading as an authentic scientific critique."
> * *—Dr. D. Secord, University of Washington. Book Review, Ecology 85(4),
> April 2004.*
> 
> . .  . .  . .  . .  . .  . .  . .  . .
> 
> *L. Santoyo Designs*
> 
> COVOLV: A Sustainable World
> http://vimeo.com/19619520
> COVOLV: Permaculture-Vol 1
> http://vimeo.com/19619175
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 4:02 AM, Lawrence F. London, Jr.
> <lflj@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> 
> >
> > I am including parts of my replies to posts about eleagnus umbellata:
> > <>
> >
> > They are not on _my_ list (of invasive plants), nor is kudzu or sericea
> > lespedeza. I think you'll find that much of this "invasive plant"
> > propaganda may well be spawned by the herbicide industry and nurtured by
> > lazy gardeners and landscapers. Herbicide use is a creeping scourge.
> >
> > The worst invasives, across the globe, are GMO crops.
> >
> > There's a use for them (plants with edible fruits). Instead of
> > destroying them, harvest and eat them. Allow wildlife to use them.
> >
> > It is certainly erroneous to be concerned about significant spread of
> > eleagnus in the Piedmont Bioregion. It is too dry and for the most part
> > has poor soil. As they spread by seed stands are slow to develop though
> > birds and deer can help with this. They just grow too slow and have too
> > much competition from other plants to really become invasive. Apex
> > Nurseries sold the eleagnus varieties fruitlandi and angustifolia to
> > landscapers. They are welcome additions to any yard, placed properly,
> > especially if you are one who likes traditional english cottage gardens
> > and it is ideal as part of an element in a permaculture system, aka
> > landscape.
> >
> > It is hysterical to recommend massive removal in areas where they are
> > not a problem, which seems to be happening. I also challenge, rightfully
> > so, claims of "invasives" _causing problems_; i.e. unwarranted trumped
> > up charges against a plant. Often, follow the money trail to see the
> > root cause of this. I grant no special consideration for conventional
> > agriculture, i.e. broadacre monocrop farming; everything other than the
> > cash crop is invasive. They need to practice natural farming. The third
> > world will not starve w/o conventional, chemical-based or gmo
> > agriculture, a ploy to gain control of a nation's food supply,
> > destroying traditional farming infrastructure in the process. Again, I
> > challenge the "causing problems" rationale to justify eradication of
> > certain plants. To tell homeowners that they need to go out and cut down
> > and dig up eleagnus wherever it is found is ludicrous and ridiculous.
> > Look at the lists of invasive plants and think about how many have
> > positive attributes and can easily be controlled with careful planning
> > and manual labor. Less TV and more hand weeding.
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