permaculture

[Katy Fox <littlestoryteller@yahoo.com>]

Dear all,


I hope you are well. I am writing because I have a recurrent question at this 
moment, kind of related to some of the permaculture designs I've been doing. 
We've been looking at community garden sites, and there are some industrial 
wastelands that are kind of on offer. So I wondered whether you have any 
experience with working with these kinds of polluted lands and how you'd go 
about dealing with them. Can you depollute them if they have heavy metals? 
are there any people dealing with that specifically that you know? (I know 
some people from Findhorn who are working to clean waters through biomimicry 
processes - Biomatrix - but none who work with soil regeneration in heavily 
polluted sites). where do you recommend I start my research in this area? 
Metta
katy


<em>shiiine on you crazy diamond...


<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://katiliromania.blogspot.com";>My 
Blog</a></em>
<em><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" 
href="http://www.abdn.ac.uk/anthropology/postgrad/details.php?id=anp057";>Anthro
 Site</a>&nbsp;
</em> 
<em></em>&nbsp;

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org" 
<permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011, 16:01
Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 106, Issue 1

Send permaculture mailing list submissions to
    permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. More on Kickstarter (wenshidi@yahoo.co.uk)
   2. This illustrates aspects of the current trend in massive
      corporate investment in agricultural enterprises on foreign soil
      affecting indigenous inhabitants of that land (Indonesia, Africa,
      Central & South America, elsewhere). (Lawrence London)
   3. Re: The Permaculture saying, "Prepare for Disaster" and the
      mo... (Douglas Woodard)
   4. Re: Salatian idea for edible college campuses    applied in real
      (david mattinson)
   5. Re: The Permaculture saying,    "Prepare for Disaster" and the
      mo... (georg parlow)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 02:57:11 +0000 (GMT)
From: "wenshidi@yahoo.co.uk" <wenshidi@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [permaculture] More on Kickstarter
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    <1320116231.30034.YahooMailNeo@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I was not initially going to subject list members to any shameless self 
promotion on our first small Kickstarter project, as it is only slightly 
Permaculture related, but it seems that the staff have taken a liking to the 
idea, so I wanted to share with you here.

Yesterday we were featured on top of the KS blog page.
?
http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/new-projects-are-living-forever

Even better news. The top item on the KS Facebook page is a link to the blog 
and the image they are using is the Mayan patch.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/800173688/2012-mayan-calendar-on-a-state-of-the-art-patch?ref=video

It just goes to show that if you have a project (however whacky it seems), KS 
is a great venue for getting things started.

Chris


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 23:19:46 -0400
From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
Subject: [permaculture] This illustrates aspects of the current trend
    in massive corporate investment in agricultural enterprises on foreign
    soil affecting indigenous inhabitants of that land (Indonesia, Africa,
    Central & South America, elsewhere).
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
    <CA+j2Q+BbFx+R137eiP6OpQLTuWkKu-7b1SEsuw2f9_iOV+k9TQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Worst Food Additive Ever? It's in Half of All Foods We Eat and Its
Production Destroys Rainforests and Enslaves Children | | AlterNet
http://www.alternet.org/story/152848/worst_food_additive_ever_it%27s_in_half_of_all_foods_we_eat_and_its_production_destroys_rainforests_and_enslaves_children/?page=entire

Worst Food Additive Ever? It's in Half of All Foods We Eat and Its
Production Destroys Rainforests and Enslaves Children
The production of this ingredient causes jaw-dropping amounts of
deforestation (and with it, carbon emissions) and human rights abuses.
October 24, 2011  |

"On August 10, police and security for the massive palm oil
corporation Wilmar International (of which Archer Daniels Midland is
the second largest shareholder) stormed a small, indigenous village on
the Indonesian island of Sumatra. They came with bulldozers and guns,
destroying up to 70 homes, evicting 82 families, and arresting 18
people. Then they blockaded the village, keeping the villagers in --
and journalists out. (Wilmar claims it has done no wrong.)

The village, Suku Anak Dalam, was home to an indigenous group that
observes their own traditional system of land rights on their
ancestral land and, thus, lacks official legal titles to the land.
This is common among indigenous peoples around the world -- so common,
in fact, that it is protected by the United Nations Declaration on the
Rights of Indigenous Peoples"

<...>


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 00:37:45 -0400
From: Douglas Woodard <dwoodard@becon.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] The Permaculture saying, "Prepare for
    Disaster" and the mo...
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4EAF7799.6010401@becon.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Lawrence, what do you think would cause freezer burn from dry ice?

From my reading the cause of freezer burn is primarily dehydration and 
secondarily oxidation, along with storage at temperatures above 0 
degrees F. Very cold local temperatures don't seem to have much if 
anything to do with it. A large part of the cure for meat is apparently 
wrapping to prevent dehydration. With grain I doubt there would be much 
of a problem with dry ice. I would expect exclusion of oxygen to be helpful.

If the Mormons recommend dry ice as Bob Waldrop says, their 
recommendation is probably based on a lot of practical experience. I 
would be inclined to take their word for it.

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada


On 10/31/2011 4:55 PM, Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote:

[snip]

> This sounds like the best way but unless some food-grade
> insulating barrier were put on top of the dry ice then beans or grain in
> direct contact with it might get "freezer burn" causing rot and eventual
> contamination of the whole container of dried food. Could this happen?


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 18:33:37 +1000
From: david mattinson <notwithoutmylama@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Salatian idea for edible college campuses
    applied in real
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <BAY146-W56DD9969783955AA4A4E08C3D70@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"



G'day,I have been listening to a talk by David W. Orr that he did at 
Shumacher College this year. He works at the Oberlin College and was talking 
about food tat had been grown on campus in vege gardens and food trees, that 
were available to teachers and students. He is working on the Oberlin Project 
that he calls full spectrum sustainability, and works much like the 
transition town concept. He is an excellent communicatoron biological design, 
green buildings and environmental politics, worth looking into. David 
Mattinson                           

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:07:28 +0100
From: georg parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] The Permaculture saying,    "Prepare for
    Disaster" and the mo...
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <D5A945F0-1672-4F5D-88EF-0CED319904C9@gmx.at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

> If the Mormons recommend dry ice as Bob Waldrop says, their
> recommendation is probably based on a lot of practical experience. I
> would be inclined to take their word for it.

Thanks for the input, folks. Thanks Doug - I second that. That settles  
it for me :-)
Georg



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
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Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more about 
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http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/documents/gardening-hand-tools.faq
permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
Market Farming Mailing List
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/marketfarming

End of permaculture Digest, Vol 106, Issue 1
********************************************
>From admin@pri-de.org  Wed Nov  2 17:35:39 2011
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Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:27:19 -0400
Thread-Topic: [permaculture] question on soil regeneration
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The simplest solution (least change, max effect) if you have metals is to 
selectively grow plants that won't accumulate them into the edible parts of 
the plant. The accumulating plants can be taken off site and used to 
eventually reduce metals until you can compost in place safely.

Fruits, e.g., will accumulate some metals in the leaves but not the fruit 
itself. (I think.) Certain metals can be bound up when mixed with other 
elements, also. 

Others will have better details.

Cheers,

Killian O'Brien
PRI-De
admin@pri-de.org
(313) 647-4015

killiankob@yahoo.com
(760) 617-4693

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org 
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Katy Fox
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 5:15 PM
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [permaculture] question on soil regeneration

Dear all,


I hope you are well. I am writing because I have a recurrent question at this 
moment, kind of related to some of the permaculture designs I've been doing. 
We've been looking at community garden sites, and there are some industrial 
wastelands that are kind of on offer. So I wondered whether you have any 
experience with working with these kinds of polluted lands and how you'd go 
about dealing with them. Can you depollute them if they have heavy metals? 
are there any people dealing with that specifically that you know? (I know 
some people from Findhorn who are working to clean waters through biomimicry 
processes - Biomatrix - but none who work with soil regeneration in heavily 
polluted sites). where do you recommend I start my research in this area? 
Metta
katy


<em>shiiine on you crazy diamond...


<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://katiliromania.blogspot.com";>My 
Blog</a></em>
<em><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" 
href="http://www.abdn.ac.uk/anthropology/postgrad/details.php?id=anp057";>Anthro
 Site</a>&nbsp;
</em> 
<em></em>&nbsp;

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org" 
<permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011, 16:01
Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 106, Issue 1

Send permaculture mailing list submissions to
    permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    permaculture-owner@lists.ibiblio.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of permaculture digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. More on Kickstarter (wenshidi@yahoo.co.uk)
   2. This illustrates aspects of the current trend in massive
      corporate investment in agricultural enterprises on foreign soil
      affecting indigenous inhabitants of that land (Indonesia, Africa,
      Central & South America, elsewhere). (Lawrence London)
   3. Re: The Permaculture saying, "Prepare for Disaster" and the
      mo... (Douglas Woodard)
   4. Re: Salatian idea for edible college campuses    applied in real
      (david mattinson)
   5. Re: The Permaculture saying,    "Prepare for Disaster" and the
      mo... (georg parlow)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 02:57:11 +0000 (GMT)
From: "wenshidi@yahoo.co.uk" <wenshidi@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [permaculture] More on Kickstarter
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    <1320116231.30034.YahooMailNeo@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I was not initially going to subject list members to any shameless self 
promotion on our first small Kickstarter project, as it is only slightly 
Permaculture related, but it seems that the staff have taken a liking to the 
idea, so I wanted to share with you here.

Yesterday we were featured on top of the KS blog page.
?
http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/new-projects-are-living-forever

Even better news. The top item on the KS Facebook page is a link to the blog 
and the image they are using is the Mayan patch.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/800173688/2012-mayan-calendar-on-a-state-of-the-art-patch?ref=video

It just goes to show that if you have a project (however whacky it seems), KS 
is a great venue for getting things started.

Chris


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 23:19:46 -0400
From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
Subject: [permaculture] This illustrates aspects of the current trend
    in massive corporate investment in agricultural enterprises on foreign
    soil affecting indigenous inhabitants of that land (Indonesia, Africa,
    Central & South America, elsewhere).
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
    <CA+j2Q+BbFx+R137eiP6OpQLTuWkKu-7b1SEsuw2f9_iOV+k9TQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Worst Food Additive Ever? It's in Half of All Foods We Eat and Its
Production Destroys Rainforests and Enslaves Children | | AlterNet
http://www.alternet.org/story/152848/worst_food_additive_ever_it%27s_in_half_of_all_foods_we_eat_and_its_production_destroys_rainforests_and_enslaves_children/?page=entire

Worst Food Additive Ever? It's in Half of All Foods We Eat and Its
Production Destroys Rainforests and Enslaves Children
The production of this ingredient causes jaw-dropping amounts of
deforestation (and with it, carbon emissions) and human rights abuses.
October 24, 2011  |

"On August 10, police and security for the massive palm oil
corporation Wilmar International (of which Archer Daniels Midland is
the second largest shareholder) stormed a small, indigenous village on
the Indonesian island of Sumatra. They came with bulldozers and guns,
destroying up to 70 homes, evicting 82 families, and arresting 18
people. Then they blockaded the village, keeping the villagers in --
and journalists out. (Wilmar claims it has done no wrong.)

The village, Suku Anak Dalam, was home to an indigenous group that
observes their own traditional system of land rights on their
ancestral land and, thus, lacks official legal titles to the land.
This is common among indigenous peoples around the world -- so common,
in fact, that it is protected by the United Nations Declaration on the
Rights of Indigenous Peoples"

<...>


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 00:37:45 -0400
From: Douglas Woodard <dwoodard@becon.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] The Permaculture saying, "Prepare for
    Disaster" and the mo...
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4EAF7799.6010401@becon.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Lawrence, what do you think would cause freezer burn from dry ice?

>From my reading the cause of freezer burn is primarily dehydration and 
secondarily oxidation, along with storage at temperatures above 0 
degrees F. Very cold local temperatures don't seem to have much if 
anything to do with it. A large part of the cure for meat is apparently 
wrapping to prevent dehydration. With grain I doubt there would be much 
of a problem with dry ice. I would expect exclusion of oxygen to be helpful.

If the Mormons recommend dry ice as Bob Waldrop says, their 
recommendation is probably based on a lot of practical experience. I 
would be inclined to take their word for it.

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada


On 10/31/2011 4:55 PM, Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote:

[snip]

> This sounds like the best way but unless some food-grade
> insulating barrier were put on top of the dry ice then beans or grain in
> direct contact with it might get "freezer burn" causing rot and eventual
> contamination of the whole container of dried food. Could this happen?


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 18:33:37 +1000
From: david mattinson <notwithoutmylama@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Salatian idea for edible college campuses
    applied in real
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <BAY146-W56DD9969783955AA4A4E08C3D70@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"



G'day,I have been listening to a talk by David W. Orr that he did at 
Shumacher College this year. He works at the Oberlin College and was talking 
about food tat had been grown on campus in vege gardens and food trees, that 
were available to teachers and students. He is working on the Oberlin Project 
that he calls full spectrum sustainability, and works much like the 
transition town concept. He is an excellent communicatoron biological design, 
green buildings and environmental politics, worth looking into. David 
Mattinson                           

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:07:28 +0100
From: georg parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] The Permaculture saying,    "Prepare for
    Disaster" and the mo...
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <D5A945F0-1672-4F5D-88EF-0CED319904C9@gmx.at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

> If the Mormons recommend dry ice as Bob Waldrop says, their
> recommendation is probably based on a lot of practical experience. I
> would be inclined to take their word for it.

Thanks for the input, folks. Thanks Doug - I second that. That settles  
it for me :-)
Georg



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more about 
this list here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Garden Hand Tool Sourcelist and Biointensive Gardening Guide
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/documents/gardening-hand-tools.faq
permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
Market Farming Mailing List
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/marketfarming

End of permaculture Digest, Vol 106, Issue 1
********************************************
_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
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Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more about 
this list here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Garden Hand Tool Sourcelist and Biointensive Gardening Guide
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/documents/gardening-hand-tools.faq
permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
Market Farming Mailing List
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/marketfarming