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  • From: Michael Pilarski <friendsofthetrees@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Hugelkultur questions
  • Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 23:04:46 -0700 (PDT)

Hi Jason,

Hugelkulturs can work in arid regions but need extra care.  they need
irrigation for at least the first years.  If there is lots of rotted material
it can absorb and hold winter rains.  but it usually takes several years
before irrigation can be stopped  (or reduced). 


Pine, juniper and straw for a hugelkultur sound pretty carboniferous to me. 
the carbon has to be balanced with manure, green matter, etc to achieve a
desireable carbon/nitrogen balance.  

Allelopathic woods like juniper, walnut and cedar can be used to some extent
in hugelkulturs, but are not best choices and only usually as a small
addition and usually already well on the way to rotting.  Best is to use
deciduous.  The more rotten the woody material is the better.  Hugelkultur
traditionally uses already rotting, moist wood,  not fresh wood.  and
certainly not the fossilized dry wood one would expect in a Western slash
pile. 


Michael



________________________________
From: Neil Bertrando <neilbertrando@gmail.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Hugelkultur questions

We built a hugelkultur (~50' x 5' x 2.5' deep) in the high desert (5-10"
annual precip, winter) which has worked well so far.  We irrigate it and it
receives little to no runoff.  grew potatoes, squash and beans the first
year, potatoes the second and seeded with nut and fruit trees in the fall to
stratify and sprout overwinter, transplanted them out, planted a berry
polyculture on it this year which is doing ok and we hope to see take well
over the next two years.  we dug into part of it after a year to put in a
path and saw slight decomposition of the 2-3" diameter slash but not much on
larger logs.  no real slumping yet.  has allowed improved drainage in poorly
drained cobbly clay.

overall, I'd say it's working.  useful for dealing with a buildup of slash
we had and some soil from a building pad excavation.

we used prunus sp, pinus sp, populus sp, ailanthus (fully dried), and ulmus
sp.  with some other scraps including a bit of juniper.

cheers,
neil

On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com>wrote:

> All this conversation about huge hugelkulturs leaves me reinvigorated about
> the concept. I began a hugelkultur about 7 years ago when I lived in the
> mtns of central Arizona with mostly juniper, pine, straw and soil. I tried
> over and over to plant it after one year and two years, but nothing I
> planted would take, so I became discouraged with the concept.  So here are
> my questions:
>
> Has anyone on this list experimented with hugelkultur in arid lands and had
> success?
>
> Does it matter what type of wood one uses?  How about notorious
> allelopathic
> woods like walnut and certain types of juniper?
>
> I have large design site currently with massive slash piles that I am
> seeing
> a higher use for now, but am concerned the hugelkultur concept may not be
> appropriate for drylands.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> --
> Jason Gerhardt
> Designer and Educator
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>From jasongerhardt@gmail.com Mon Sep 12 12:28:43 2011
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Thanks Michael,
It would seem irrigation for a few years defeats the purpose unless of
course the hugelkultur breaks down and holds water on its own for at least a
few years more without irrigation. Contouring the hugelkultur will be
essential where I live in this regard.

I think I will give it a shot and see. Everything in the cold drylands is
slow growing anyway. I'll just add it to the list of long-term technique
trials.

Now I have to find a way to get some already rotting, moist, deciduous wood;
this is very hard to come by in the wind swept prairie/rocky mountain edge.
What do you think about dunking the "fossilized western slash piles" into a
pond for a week or so, then burying it?
--
Jason Gerhardt
Designer and Educator




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