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  • From: Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] official certification
  • Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 11:53:23 -0700 (PDT)

I agree that teaching is as much a skill set as knowing permaculture. The
subject is vast - what parts do you cover in two weeks, so that the person
walks out with competencies and being able to think with the subject, and
also "knows what they don't know" and where to find out about it? 
I was deeply immersed in alternative education for more than 10 years, as
well as permaculture design for almost five years, before taking on a full 72
hour PDC. The alternative education background is just as important and
useful, to me, as the PDC knowledge. It helped me isolate what to teach and
how to get it across. I am still constantly tweaking and improving on what I
do and probably always will. I love educating people, I have a passion for
turning their lights on, and that's why I do it. 
Cory

--- On Fri, 11/5/10, Kelly Simmons <kelly@bouldersustainability.org> wrote:

From: Kelly Simmons <kelly@bouldersustainability.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] official certification
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Friday, November 5, 2010, 11:34 AM

I am late to the conversation but I am glad it is happening.  So thank you
Toby and everyone.

I would also like to open up the conversation about becoming a permaculture
teacher and the current process of taking a one week course and then
supposedly being ready to go out and teach.   I was told by my teacher that
after my PDC I was expected to practice for two years before being eligible
to become a permaculture teacher.  But I watch senior permaculture teachers
letting newbie PDC graduates into permaculture teaching courses regularly.  I
have met graduates of PDCs who cannot tell me the ethics, or anything about
design.  They know the tools.  They can cite swales, and water catchment and
sheet mulching, but can't tell me the difference between a zone and a sector. 
It's disturbing.

And I've met students who have been so angry and disappointed after a PDC,
who, once the student gets out on their own, realize that they didn't learn
what they should have about the fundamentals and designing.  It starts
becoming "buyer beware" in PDCs and that doesn't sit well with me as a
permaculture teacher.  It starts to feel like some students are getting taken
for a ride to have warm bodies in classes, and they aren't learning the
fundamentals that make permaculture more than organic backyard gardening with
some self sufficiency  thrown in.

Without some knowledge of how people learn and how to reinforce learning,
PDC's can become a mishmash of stuff that is difficult to sort through and
prioritize for students.  The teachers really have to not only know
permaculture but have to know HOW to teach it, and that isn't always
self-explanatory.  Some of the concepts are quite complex.

I'm not in favor of a huge bureaucracy, but as permaculture gets more well
known, those who are TEACHING it need to be top notch.  I am not in favor of
letting newbie PDC graduates take permaculture teacher courses or even
advanced design courses without at least some period of practice time and
study beforehand, unless there are special circumstances, like prior advanced
education in landscape design, or ecology, or education.

I don't have ideas for how to make this happen, but that is what I'd like to
see.  Perhaps the teacher course needs to be two weeks with some  teaching
ethics thrown in.

best,

Kelly







On Oct 23, 2010, at 3:54 PM, Jason Gerhardt wrote:

> I completely agree with Toby and others that the PDC was not intended to
> qualify a person as a 'designer', but rather to certify individuals as ‘in
> training’.  It is after all what Mollison himself has written.  As far as
> I’m concerned we are all ‘in training’ perpetually.  My guess is that Toby
> was simply trying to suggest we be careful with our wording, and rightly
> so.
>
>
> To the further dialogue that has mushroomed from Toby's post, I have this to
> contribute.  We could just get rid of the word ‘designer’ and call everyone
> ‘practitioners’; we could use classifications like ‘freshman practitioner’
> and ‘junior’ and ‘senior’ and on and on.  I’m sure that would not go over
> too well with all the triggering of repressed high school emotions.  The
> fact is we all have associations with words, some negative, some positive,
> but a duck is a duck so let’s call it such.  Words like 'trainee' and
> 'designer' inherently break apart reality into little unrealistic pieces,
> but hopefully we can use our insufficient semantic system with honestly,
> clarity, compassion, and humility.  After my first 2 PDC’s and an advanced
> design course I finally realized the challenges with the certification
> wording.  6 years later, now that I co-teach such courses I see the same
> thing over and over.  To my experience, it all depends on the person, which
> leads me to be in full support of a mentorship program for permaculture
> design in the US.  Such a program would be best if it functioned as a
> person-to-person relationship where trust and openness can be built.  I know
> my relationship with my mentors has been and continues to be instrumental to
> my development as a competent permaculturist.
>
>
> I also agree with others that it would be best to avoid a hierarchy and
> bureaucracy within the permaculture community.  I think the question is how
> do we create a system that supports trainees with follow up education and
> mentorships, rather than a qualifying and disqualifying agency?  In so
> doing, we move from control to support. As much as I dislike people
> highjacking 'permaculture' and taking it in unintended directions, I'm not
> sure that can be prevented.  Having attempted to control many things in my
> life I think I have enough experience to know that we should give up
> permaculture policing right now, but support and competence building is a
> completely different animal.  Our goal should be to create opportunities for
> those interested in furthering their studies and building their skills.  It
> is my hope that we can build relationships instead of putting up walls.  I
> can’t wait to see it happen and am fully willing to contribute.
>
>
> Jason Gerhardt
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>From kelly@bouldersustainability.org Fri Nov 5 22:11:46 2010
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From: Kelly Simmons <kelly@bouldersustainability.org>
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Subject: [permaculture] Cultural diversity in PDCs (was official cert)
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There is one little nugget for me in what Killian was saying, that I
would like to chew on with interested folks on this list and that is
the over-riding "white middleclass" nature of many state-side PDCs.

I think I hear clearly what Toby was saying and I largely agree with a
lot of it, but I confess that I am bothered by the lack of real
diversity in our courses and students and leaders and teachers. Not
entirely, of course, but largely.

Is there a better way to energize more Latino or African American
community members to come learn permaculture?, Is there a way to "make
relevant" permaculture ideas to these communities? [I admit up front
that I haven't been to every community or every PDC, so please don't
flame me, if your situation is a shining example, but I don't see much
diversity reflected in teachers, photos, or students and people I meet
who are engaged in permaculture].

Anyway, I see permaculture as a bottom up, empowerment tool and it
bothers me that, except for some development work overseas, at least
in the States, it is the more culturally privileged among us who are
attending and teaching our PDCs.

These are observations and ruminations, and I am interested in what
people think. I agree that the hippie, flakey view hurts permaculture
in some ways. Perhaps its a big turnoff to communities of color....

I am excited to be attending a Bioneers conference, where there are
some presentations on indigenous ecological knowledge and I know there
is great work going on up at Pine Ridge.

But perhaps we need to start making cultural diversity a priority -
because missing a diversity of views impoverishes our thinking and our
solutions. For example Cory's reflection on listening and speaking in
circle up at Pine Ridge. Perhaps there is some "white middle class
privilege" embedded or woven throughout our teaching or how PDCs
operate that we are blind to. And this blindness makes participation
more wearing and difficult for people of color. I wonder.

Or perhaps I am somehow blind to all the cultural diversity in US
PDCs......

Thoughts?

Kelly



On Oct 24, 2010, at 3:53 PM, paul wheaton wrote:

> I think, Killian, you should take on the task of getting the
> permaculture word to those folks that you see as unable to afford the
> work that others are providing.
>
> If everybody spreads the word according to the ways that they are
> comfortable with, it should reach a lot of people.
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