permaculture

[jenny Nazak <jnazak@yahoo.com>]

I agree with Toby's comment that "...Permaculture is largely regarded as too 
hippie and flakey to be worth paying attention to. The vast majority of 
people, the ones doing the real damage, are repulsed--or worse, amused--by 
those attitudes and will never take permaculture seriously until we stop our 
self-righteous insistence that everyone have our radical, minority politics 
before we work with them. If we want to keep permaculture limited to our 
little elite, then let's not offer diplomas and let's only do cheap courses 
in an old barn. To talk to more people, you have to speak in their language, 
not force them to speak yours."

Yes! The more professionally we present ourselves, the wider and more 
"mainstream" the audience we are attracting. I've been working for some years 
as a publicist and registrar for various permaculture courses, and I've 
watched this happen. And like Toby, I have had more success filling the 
courses that charged reasonable tuition, than I have had filling the courses 
where we were willing to let people take the course for super cheap or free 
just to fill the class. Furthermore, in my experience, classes where we've 
charged full tuition seem to attract more students who attend all days, 
finish their designs, and go on to incorporate permaculture into their 
profession in some way. (I personally feel that it would be a good thing for 
the world if all of us permie grads, even those of us who don't work as 
permaculture teachers or designers per se, keep on finding new ways to 
"permaculture" our jobs.)

By the way, the Austin Permaculture Guild, Austin, Texas, USA, is among those 
that offer a Permaculture Design Certificate (as distinguished from a 
"certification") course. Our next course starts in January, and is a commuter 
course offered on weekends. This format taps into a large segment of the 
local population: people who work during the week at office jobs, or at their 
own businesses. A very desirable audience in terms of promoting the spread of 
permaculture.

I do think the diploma and certification process is an excellent addition. 
Post-gradute work, as it were. I feel that many PDC grads are hungry for 
this, and that it would serve the planet well.

Jenny Nazak
(Living on the Atlantic Coast of Florida now, but still helping out my dear 
friends in the Austin Permaculture Guild!)      





      
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Phyllostachys bissetii=20
Maximum Height: 30 feet, usually 20 to 25 feet
Diameter: 1 inch=20
Hardiness: -10=B0 F
USDA Zone recommended 5 through 10

One of the hardiest bamboos with dark green culms and evergreen foliage. On=
e of our smaller Phyllostachys, usually growing only a little over 20 feet =
tall. Two bamboo growers though have claimed to have plants growing to 45 f=
eet tall under ideal conditions. For us it remains a smaller bamboo. This b=
amboo can form an extremely dense canopy, scarcely admitting any light to t=
he ground.=20
http://www.bamboogarden.com/Phyllostachys%20bissetii.htm=0A=0A=0A      
>From toby@patternliteracy.com  Sun Oct 24 17:39:43 2010
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] official certification
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Okay, this is one of my lengthy screeds. The more meaty stuff is toward =
the end.=20

On Oct 23, 2010, at 4:23 PM, Killian O'Brien wrote:

>=20
> Oh, Toby, do be careful when putting words in other's mouths.  . . . =
Read again, more carefully, or ask for clarification, please.

Well, here's what you wrote-

> By making permaculture about money and formal certificates, you are =
preventing/slowing its spread . . .
>  . . . makes it the playground of the (relatively) elite. And I guess =
the assessors are chosen by acclaim or are self-appointed...? . . .  =
engage in cannibalistic behaviors . . . Unless this more rigorous =
certification process is going to be offered essentially for free, and =
that seems unlikely, it will do more harm than good.

It's impossible for me to take this in any other way than as =
condemnation of the Gaia U program and certification; if you meant it as =
support for multiple options, those words don't convey that. I don't =
think I've failed to read carefully. Whatever you were meaning, when we =
lead off with negative, emotionally loaded language, it gets people's =
hackles up from the start, and makes it likely that any calmer, =
constructive points made later--as you did make--will be lost. It's the =
same thing that happened with Kevin's original post about the Army PDC; =
he started with condemnations and complaints, and then wondered why the =
thoughtful questions he asked later were ignored.=20

>=20
>  Money is just a proxy for all the various reasons people can't make =
it to courses. Got course fees covered? What about air fare? Lost work =
hours? Child care? And on and on. Your point is moot, imo.

No, it's not moot; it's at the heart of what you wrote: How do we spread =
this stuff? What I see from you is a list of perceived impediments that =
have been easily overcome.  People offer courses on the weekends, on a =
string of Saturdays, we offer child-care done by spouses (teachers or =
participants) who trade off, we offer local courses so there's no =
airfare, we offer parallel courses for their kids. There are people out =
there getting 30, 40, 70 students, because they are creating those =
solutions. And those who hold cheap PDCs in crowded living rooms and =
advertise on the co-op bulletin board--maybe not you, but lots of =
teachers--complain that they can't fill their courses. They ignore =
useful tools that work, see only impediments, and then complain.

 Certification, far from being an impediment, is what attracts people to =
these courses. You have to give people a tangible take home. The =
certificate is exactly that for most people, much more so than making a =
compost pile or a general grasp of systems thinking. Non-certificate =
courses tend not to attract as many people, and I hear that from all the =
teachers I talk to--which is quite a few. The answer is not to give it =
away and lower standards, not in this culture.

See, here's where I think we differ, and I'm going to say something very =
politically incorrect: I don't think that an effective way to spread =
permaculture is to target the poor or the radicals (although I won't =
discourage someone from doing that). You only change one person at a =
time that way. I think it is far more effective to offer it to policy =
makers, universities, planners, CEOs, developers--the elite, if you =
will. One CEO who pushes permaculture through to all employees, one =
Hollywood star who gets on Oprah, will make far more difference than a =
blockfull of anarchists or impoverished. It is still a top-down world; I =
don't like it but I will use it to my advantage. I know I will be =
pilloried for that, but I'm looking for leverage points, and that's =
where I see them. I've done the other--I've done PDCs for $40, and =
almost nothing came of them, maybe a keyhole bed in a backyard. My PDCs =
to professionals result in amazing projects that go on to be implemented =
in schools, governments, neighborhoods, and businesses.

>=20
>  I said the solution proposed maintains structures of the past that =
are unlikely to apply in the future, as well as limiting access, so why =
not do it differently?=20

Okay, this next is triggered by, but not a direct reply to, the above. =
On one hand, the way many current management and decision-making =
processes are used is indeed dysfunctional, overly hierarchical, based =
on continual growth, and all those other points. On the other hand, most =
of the replacements for them, like consensus, NVC, etc., are either =
little-tried, not well understood or understood in conflicting ways, =
easily mis-applied or stonewalled, and have other serious problems. =
There is, indeed, huge urgency in moving forward. But if we wait for =
these new tools to come on line, for everyone to agree how to use them, =
it will be too late. So it's a mistake to throw out the old tools right =
now, and that's why I think certification, clear rules, and common =
decision-making processes still have plenty of value. I doubt that the =
future will be so radical that certificates, degrees, committees, =
voting, listening to leaders, and other familiar ways of getting things =
done are going to disappear. There's the short version of the problem. =
Here's the long version, if that's not clear or you want more:

Having survived the sixties, I watched over and over as communities and =
groups would form, unhappy with the old ways, and they'd throw the rules =
out completely, and try to design a new way to be together.  Almost none =
of them lasted more than months; a fraction of 1% survive today. The =
impetus was honorable: end the patriarchy, etc, etc, but they had no =
functional tools to replace what they threw out, and in most cases, =
their efforts devolved into the ancient pattern of a few people under a =
charismatic leader, and everyone who disagreed with the boss left. We've =
learned a lot since then, and there are formal processes such as =
consensus that show promise. But hardly anyone really understands those =
new tools. They are counter-intuitive, and I would argue that in many =
cases, egalitarian methods like consensus go against our essential =
tribal nature as social pack animals who inherently look to strong, =
competent leaders. And I see us in a similar position to where we were =
in 1970. I hang around a lot of communities, and the complaint I hear =
over and over is that they love the community but consensus and related =
tools suck--"Nothing ever gets done, so why can't we just appoint =
committees and managers and move forward? I trust my peers to make good =
decisions without me."=20

Years ago, I ran a business, and had a crew of really gifted employees. =
I went to them with a profit-sharing, co-management plan where they =
would have equal power in the business, and they said, "We just want to =
come to work, then go home and forget about the job. We see all the work =
you do, and we don't want to share it." If we wait until everyone is =
empowered and is a leader, we won't get there in time, and we will =
suffer from the "too many cooks" problem, which I see constantly in new =
endeavors. The process of reinvigorating the national permaculture =
institute right now is hamstrung by exactly this defect in consensus: no =
one is allowed to move until we all feel equally empowered. So we are =
stalled. I think the idea that we will evolve to "decentralized =
leadership structures" flies in the face of our human and animal nature; =
we respond to and need clear, focused leadership. What's lacking is =
accountability, not decent tools. God, the last thing I want is to have =
to participate in every decision that affects me. I trust other people =
to be competent. So while we continue to hone newer and more equitable =
ways of sharing power and responsibility, many of the current methods, =
applied at the right scale, work very well, are comprehended by the =
mainstream and thus are more likely to be followed, and will get us =
there faster.

Another example: there are tours in many cities of "sustainable living =
examples" or the like. The ones that look like hippie houses are scoffed =
at by most of those on the tours. The ones that look like familiar =
houses get people excited. They aren't as "sustainable" as the hippie =
houses, but they get far more people on board. And then, once they are =
on board, we can move them yet farther. We need to meet people where =
they are, start with what they are familiar with. Few can make a giant =
paradigm shift as the first step, and it's a pipe dream to expect it as =
prerequisite for a solution.

We know that the big parts of the system are broken: national =
government, big corporations and banks, etc. But the same tools that =
work so badly at huge scale, when they are applied at small scale--local =
government, small non-profits and business, independent schools, =
committees, charismatic leaders--still work very well. I think we need =
to work with what we have at the same time we work on the replacements. =
If we insist on everyone learning new tools before we start, we will not =
get there in time. You cannot get anywhere if you don't start from where =
you are.

This is written fairly quickly; I hope that instead of nit-picking over =
the parts that aren't well developed you'll try to follow my intent.=20

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com