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  • From: Carl DuPoldt <cdupoldt@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture Design Courses with a Certificate - Some Web Sites
  • Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:27:06 -0700 (PDT)


http://www.commoncircle.com/
http://www.permaculture.org/nm/index.php/site/permaculture_design_course/
http://www.permaculture.org/nm/index.php/site/index/
http://www.oaec.org/permaculture-design
http://www.barkingfrogspermaculture.org/onlinepdc.htm
http://www.earthflow.com/
http://www.permacultureactivist.net/DesignCourse/PcSyllabus.htm
http://www.dfwpermaculture.com/



>From admin@pri-de.org Sun Oct 24 03:15:18 2010
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From: Killian O'Brien <admin@pri-de.org>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 03:15:13 -0400
Thread-Topic: [permaculture] official certification
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] official certification
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http://blog.paulpolak.com/?p=3D546

"Is there an inevitable political process by which turns radical innovation=
into conventional wisdom and which gives birth to ossified institutions wh=
ose perverse effects can only be addressed by the next disruptive innovatio=
n?

I hope not.

I have devoted my life to fomenting a revolution in design and a revolution=
in big business centered on serving the other 90% of the world's customers=
.

But I am increasingly concerned that we might only be successful in creatin=
g the next generation of ossified destructive institutions.

I can't get it out of my head that French revolution gave us Napoleon Bonap=
arte.

And the steam engine created the wage slavery of the industrial revolution =
at the same time it helped millions move out of poverty.

...Institutionalizing Disruptive Innovation

This is probably the most difficult thing to pull off I can think of. As ID=
E began to grow I did my best to instill a culture of ongoing innovation an=
d contrarian thinking into the institutional structure that was rapidly eme=
rging. I'm still not sure how to institutionalize disruptive innovation, bu=
t I know that it requires a decentralized leadership structure, and an ongo=
ing process of empowerment and out of the box thinking for all of the playe=
rs in the organization - the very same processes that poor people need to m=
aster to successfully move out of poverty."

On point, imo.

Cheers,

Killian O'Brien
PRI-De
admin@pri-de.org
(313) 647-4015

killiankob@yahoo.com
(760) 617-4693

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:permaculture-bounces@l=
ists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Toby Hemenway
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 6:08 PM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] official certification

On Oct 23, 2010, paul wheaton wrote:

> Suppose you reach 30% of the PDC graduates and they trust you and do
> as you ask: they stop calling themselves "certified permaculture designe=
rs".=20

I don't think that your hypothetical situation is likely occur enough to ju=
stify your "baby with bathwater" solution of just giving up on standards. O=
nly a few PDCs claim to create certified designers; Beeja's is the first me=
ntion of it I've seen in many, many PDC announcements, and only a small per=
centage of the grads I encounter think they are certified designers. So I d=
on't see a big cadre of phony certified designers out there wreaking havoc.=
And the logic of the solution seems dreadful: SInce about 30% of all drive=
rs speed, let's give up on enforcing speeding laws, or raise the speed limi=
t to where no one can be convicted of speeding, since the law disadvantages=
those who don't speed. I don't think so. Like Albert Brooks's character in=
"Broadcast News" says, all the devil wants is for us to lower our standard=
s just a little bit.


> On Oct 23, 2010, Killian O'Brien wrote, about the Gaia University diploma=
program
>=20
>> And, who will be able to afford this? If we simply repeat what has alway=
s been, we are not moving forward. By making permaculture about money and f=
ormal certificates, you are preventing/slowing its spread.

This is so disappointing, Killian. Sean offers a path to advanced certifica=
tion in permaculture, something thousands of people are clamoring for, and =
your reaction is to brand it as elitist, rather than rejoice at the emergen=
ce of yet another option. And since 55% of the US population has attended s=
ome college (US census), you're talking about a pretty enormous "elite."=20

Did you know that the certificate was created by Bill because it was the on=
ly way people in less-developed countries could get funding to take PDCs? I=
t was a solution to lack of money, not the problem. And still is. If you do=
n't think a certificate helps, then you don't have to get one. But a certif=
icate gives just enough credibility to a PDC to where people--participants,=
parents, grantors, NGOs--will find ways to pay for it. And if money is sti=
ll a limit, I have yet to see someone who asked, who actually tried, be tur=
ned away from a PDC because they had too little. There are grants, scholars=
hips, work trades, loans, free courses, low-income courses, deferred paymen=
ts, payment plans, a whole host of solutions that show me that the "I can't=
afford it" whine is just a cop out, more revealing of the person's negativ=
e attitudes about money and desire to blame others than about any real obst=
acle. Or as Larry Santoyo puts it, "Then let's just die."

By the way, Gaia U is working with the Permaculture Institute on the diplom=
a program. PI-USA folks have been talking to Andy Langford there for a whil=
e. There is a great deal of interconnection and conversation going on; the =
days of the Mollisonian lone wolves are drawing to close.

If anyone doesn't want to play in this process, then don't. Do it however =
you want. But please don't tear down those who are trying to get permacultu=
re out to a larger audience: the mainstream, higher education, those outsid=
e our tiny countercultural elite. News flash: standards increase popularity=
and appeal, not decrease. And in a culture that is all about money, free i=
s regarded as worthless, and money means value. My higher priced courses ge=
t far more students, and far more of the mainstream, than my inexpensive on=
es. Ironic, but a cultural truth.

You see, my fear is just the opposite of yours. I think permaculture is bei=
ng held back far more by the self-righteous, screw-the-man, those without d=
readlocks need not apply, money is evil attitudes of the old core of Pc pra=
ctitioners. Permaculture is largely regarded as too hippie and flakey to be=
worth paying attention to. The vast majority of people, the ones doing the=
real damage, are repulsed--or worse, amused--by those attitudes and will n=
ever take permaculture seriously until we stop our self-righteous insistenc=
e that everyone have our radical, minority politics before we work with the=
m. If we want to keep permaculture limited to our little elite, then let's =
not offer diplomas and let's only do cheap courses in an old barn. To talk =
to more people, you have to speak in their language, not force them to spea=
k yours. The true flag of the guerrilla is the color of the enemy.=20

Pardon my heat, Killian; it's not really all directed at you, but reflects =
my annoyance at what I see as the real limitation to permaculture's spread.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com



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