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  • From: LBUZZELL@aol.com
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Gender-based? Not IMHO.
  • Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:27:48 EDT

Hi Linda and Lee,

I agree that gender is only one variable -- but, like race, ethnicity etc.
not one to be left out of the conversation if our goal is to be wholistic
in our approach to the human species as we currently exist. Not describing
the elephants in the room doesn't make them disappear!

What other variables would you like to include along with gender as we
discuss communication styles as one area we could apply permaculture to?

I see this as perhaps analogous to plant or animal descriptions: not all
individuals respond the same way, but perhaps it would be significance to
note some differences relative to species, gender? We certainly do this all
the time when doing our permaculture designs, and humans are just another
species living on our land, albeit a (hopefully) very smart one!

Linda


In a message dated 8/22/2010 1:51:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
lindaray@att.net writes:

I humbly suggest we think outside of 'gender' and more into 'personal
character
attribute sets that are harmonious with Permaculture objectives'.


That way, we won't leave out Mother Theresa, Gandhiji, Mother Mary and
Jesus,
Nelson Mandela, Sir Francis Bacon, Lady Di, and Wafa Sultan, among many,
many
others. It's much, much larger than simple gender IMO.

Limited language breeds limited thinking. If you cannot express in depth
and
with thoroughness what you are doing, it's *way* harder to spread the word
about
it... Permaculture is in a ground-breaking position here. Carpe Diem :-).

Namaste,

Linda




________________________________
From: Lee Flier <leeflier@comcast.net>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 7:58:22 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] WTF?

Like I said, I don't deny the research, but I just don't know that it's
constructive to frame communications problems in those terms. I think
it's
enough to simply say that there are different styles of communication
(which are
affected by a lot of factors including gender, culture, language, and
individual
upbringing) and it's probably constructive for everyone to work on their
communication skills, especially in today's globalized culture.

I also don't necessarily agree that female leadership tends toward more
cooperative or peaceful results. We haven't had too many women in power
throughout history to use as examples, but those we have had haven't
necessarily
been shining examples - Margaret Thatcher and Marie Antoinette come to
mind. :D
Women are just as susceptible as men to being corrupted by power.

I realize there are some generalities that hold true in a lot of cases,
but
since I've personally been victimized by generalizations far more often
than
I've been helped (and know many others in the same boat), I tend to poke
holes
in them much more often than accept them.

On 8/21/2010 3:19 PM, Killian O'Brien wrote:
> Lee,
>
> This is basically an FYI comment, but I think if we are bothering to
have this
>conversation, we can't dismiss what is an important aspect of it, even if
not a
>central point of contention therein.
>
> Research, experience and history do show fairly large differences in
>communicative styles which also translate over to problem solving. Of
course,
>these are generalizations, but they are real issues and the
generalizations
>apply to a large percentage of the population. Essentially, women problem
solve
>via relationships, men via practicalities.
>
> The results of female leadership because of this tend to create more
>cooperative, more peaceful results... including societies. Like I said
before,
>I'd love to study with permaculturists such as Starhawk, but would likely
never
>teach in a similar style... though I might have 20 years ago.

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