permaculture

[Linda Ray <lindaray@att.net>]

I did not advocate "leaving gender out of the conversation", as all things 
must 
be considered as much as possible within all responses. 


I advocate exploring all methods of communication which meet the criteria of 
"personal 

character attribute sets that are harmonious with Permaculture objectives".

So the test question is, "Is this communication harmonious with Permaculture 
objectives?" If it isn't, then it must be expressed within means that *are*. 
Otherwise, the communication should be parsed and examined until it is. I am 
absolutely certain that some minds, as well as many eyes, will be opened by 
taking this approach.

It will cause each would-be communicant to face wherever they themselves 
depart 
from Permaculture-compatible thinking.

Notice I didn't say it would be fast :-)..

Namaste,

Linda



________________________________
From: "LBUZZELL@aol.com" <LBUZZELL@aol.com>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 8:27:48 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Gender-based? Not IMHO.

Hi Linda and Lee,

I agree that gender is only one variable -- but, like race, ethnicity etc.  
not one to be left out of the conversation if our goal is to be wholistic 
in our  approach to the human species as we currently exist.  Not describing 
the  elephants in the room doesn't make them disappear!

What other variables would you like to include along with gender as we  
discuss communication styles as one area we could apply permaculture to?

I see this as perhaps analogous to plant or animal descriptions:  not  all 
individuals respond the same way, but perhaps it would be significance to  
note some differences relative to species, gender?  We certainly do this  all 
the time when doing our permaculture designs, and humans are just another  
species living on our land, albeit a (hopefully) very smart one!

Linda


In a message dated 8/22/2010 1:51:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
lindaray@att.net writes:

I humbly  suggest we think outside of 'gender' and more into 'personal 
character  
attribute sets that are harmonious with Permaculture  objectives'. 


That way, we won't leave out Mother Theresa,  Gandhiji, Mother Mary and 
Jesus, 
Nelson Mandela, Sir Francis Bacon, Lady  Di, and Wafa Sultan, among many, 
many 
others. It's much, much larger  than simple gender IMO.

Limited language breeds limited thinking. If  you cannot express in depth 
and 
with thoroughness what you are doing, it's  *way* harder to spread the word 
about 
it... Permaculture is in a  ground-breaking position here. Carpe Diem  :-).

Namaste,

Linda




________________________________
From:  Lee Flier <leeflier@comcast.net>
To: permaculture  <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 7:58:22  AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] WTF?

Like I said, I don't deny the  research, but I just don't know that it's 
constructive to frame  communications problems in those terms.  I think 
it's 
enough to  simply say that there are different styles of communication 
(which are  
affected by a lot of factors including gender, culture, language, and  
individual 
upbringing) and it's probably constructive for everyone to work  on their 
communication skills, especially in today's globalized  culture.

I also don't necessarily agree that female leadership tends  toward more 
cooperative or peaceful results.  We haven't had too many  women in power 
throughout history to use as examples, but those we have  had haven't 
necessarily 
been shining examples - Margaret Thatcher and  Marie Antoinette come to 
mind. :D  
Women are just as susceptible as  men to being corrupted by power.

I realize there are some generalities  that hold true in a lot of cases, 
but 
since I've personally been  victimized by generalizations far more often 
than 
I've been helped (and  know many others in the same boat), I tend to poke 
holes 
in them much more  often than accept them.

On 8/21/2010 3:19 PM, Killian O'Brien  wrote:
> Lee,
> 
> This is basically an FYI comment, but I  think if we are bothering to 
have this 
>conversation, we can't dismiss  what is an important aspect of it, even if 
not a 
>central point of  contention therein.
> 
> Research, experience and history do show  fairly large differences in 
>communicative styles which also translate  over to problem solving. Of 
course, 
>these are generalizations, but  they are real issues and the 
generalizations 
>apply to a large  percentage of the population. Essentially, women problem 
solve 
>via  relationships, men via practicalities.
> 
> The results of female  leadership because of this tend to create more 
>cooperative, more  peaceful results... including societies. Like I said 
before, 
>I'd love  to study with permaculturists such as Starhawk, but would likely 
never  
>teach in a similar style... though I might have 20 years  ago.

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Google has done a decent job of implementing an effective, useful search 
engine. Regretfully, I think that a public search utility would not be as 
effective, nimble or innovative. Perhaps an open source search engine/site 
will be developed and deployed that could compete. Until then, it will be 
interesting to see if other commercial efforts (by huge corporations like 
Microsoft) will significantly impact Google's market share.

What would perhaps be a better candidate for regulation or implementation as 
a public utility is broadband Internet access itself. Living in the near 
boonies, my options are limited. As was the case with electrification, it is 
not commercially attractive to build out the infrastructure to rural areas. 
The government could step in to help. Unlike electrification, choosing to go 
"off the grid" would defeat the whole purpose of the Internet. :-)

Jim

P.S., I look forward to seeing the growth of your cooperative efforts.

on 8/24/2010 1:20 PM Nicholas Roberts, Permaculture.coop said the following:
> In my view Google has privatised, monopolised a public utility i.e search
> and should be regulated, taxed etc