permaculture

[Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>]

We've heard from the 30 years, and now from the 10s...
 
If I concede that there are 50 different people on this listserv that could 
relate stories of life-changing, paradigm-shifting PDC experiences, could 
those 50 people concede that it's possible, given certain backgrounds and 
experiences, for a human being to grasp permaculture without one?
 
If not that, would someone please quote me on this thread where I claim to be 
a "master," or talk about teaching permaculture to others in a professional 
setting?  I think I've been quite careful to avoid statements like that.  And 
in truth, am not nearly so presumptuous.
 
Neither David Holmgren nor Bill Mollison took a PDC.  Masanobu Fukuoka never 
had a Natural Farming course in college.  Allan Savory didn't find 
enlightenment at a HM workshop.  PA Yeomans wasn't a water management 
district official.  And Adam and Eve didn't have belly buttons.  As I very 
quickly point out that I am none of these uniquely gifted people, I try to 
bring attention to the fact that there is only one correct answer to my first 
question.
 
Whether or not that describes me, or others on their way here, only time and 
experience will tell.  
 
I read a new age piece recently, maybe on Reality Sandwich, that described 
how humans are evolving.  That the more recent the awakening -- the more 
recently that ignition point is fired -- the faster that individual is likely 
to come to grips with what's happening.  In other words, one who went back to 
the land in the 70s may have taken 30 years to find that unifying moment, 
while someone beginning their journey in the 90s may have found it in 10, and 
someone in my situation (someone hard-headed enough to miss the boat until 
2008) may catch up in a year or two.  We can never duplicate your experience, 
but we might have a better grasp of your world than you think.  There's an 
event horizon that isn't waiting for us to raise funds, pack our bags, and 
convince our friends.
 
I want to be very serious here.  As most of you are well aware, global 
energetics equations are entering new territory.  I wish, above all, that I 
had been one of the truly early adopters of behavioral innovation like a lot 
of you guys.  If only so that my head wasn't always spinning with the pace of 
evolution, and my feet might touch the ground periodically.  But that's not 
how it worked out.
 
I'm not special.  Just a late arrival with a hot fire.  And now that the tide 
has officially turned, I think you can expect a lot more people like me to 
start showing up.  People on the edge, absolutely bewildered by what's 
happening to them, breathless and dizzy, looking for a safe harbor.
 
Here's to edges.
 
Tripp out.


 

The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
-Chinese proverb
 

--- On Sat, 12/12/09, Robert Waldrop <bwaldrop@cox.net> wrote:


From: Robert Waldrop <bwaldrop@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Thoughts on PDCs - Was US National Permaculture 
Conference (lengthy post)
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Saturday, December 12, 2009, 1:12 AM


I studied permaculture on my own for 6 years before getting involved 
with the distance-learning PDC offered by Barking Frogs Permaculture, 
taught by Dan Hemenway (no close relationship to Toby, Dan says he 
thinks they have a common ancestor in colonial times).  I got a lot of 
things "right" in my self-study and praxis, but two things I was missing 
was the concept of permaculture as a wholistic design art/science, and a 
good sense of how many seemingly disparate elements are integrated 
together in a design.  After six years of self-study, I was focused on 
permaculture as kind of an advanced gardening class with an emphasis on 
"forest gardening".  Well, that's certainly part of permaculture, but 
it's sort of like saying that canvas, because it is used in making an 
oil painting, is art.  I've been involved with the BF PDC for 4 years 
now, and do not consider myself qualified yet to run a PDF on my own, 
although I am more confident of my ability to do the shorter workshops.  
I consider myself maybe just getting out of the "apprentice" stage and 
moving into the "journeyman" level, and still years away from becoming a 
"master".  Once a tadpole, now a froglet.

Bob Waldrop, Oklahoma City
www.energyconservationinfo.org
www.barkingfrogspermaculture.org

Tripp Tibbetts wrote:
> Ben Martin Horst wrote:
>  
>   
>> I had read all the permaculture literature then available, subscribed to 
>> this and other
>>     
> lists, etc, but nothing made permaculture "click" as a comprehensive systems
> practice and pedagogy the way that PDC did.
>  
> So what if it already "clicked?"  If it clicked any more than it already 
> has, I'd be a different species.  And I wouldn't look sideways at that 
> already being the case...
>  
> Some really freaky interesting things have happened to me in the last year 
> since I discovered permaculture.  I'd be glad to chat with anyone off-list 
> about stuff like that if they're interested, but I'll leave it there for 
> now.
>  
> Look, I'm not asking for an exception to the rule.  I'd love to take a good 
> PDC, and have in fact been chatting off-list with my bioregional neighbor, 
> Michael Pilarski,  about getting that done.  But it just hasn't worked out 
> yet.  And I'll be honest, the money is a big deal.  Hence the "smoldering 
> embers of a dying economy" image in my original post.  But the idea that I 
> don't "get" permaculture, in all its parts, because of that one void, is 
> argumentative at best.  No disrespect to Toby.
>  
> Thanks Mitch, for relating that PDC horror story.  Puffy paint and 
> sparkles.  Although I think I can safely assume that if that were the norm 
> none of us would be having this discussion...
>  
> Tripp out.
>
>
>
> The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
> -Chinese proverb
>  
>
> --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Ben Martin Horst <ben.martinhorst@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Ben Martin Horst <ben.martinhorst@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Thoughts on PDCs - Was US National Permaculture 
> Conference (lengthy post)
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 9:54 PM
>
>
> Lest those who haven't done a PDC be frightened by Mitch's description of
> his, I'd like to mention that I cannot speak praise enough for the teachers
> of the one I took (Jude Hobbs, Toby Hemenway, and Tom Ward). I had read all
> the permaculture literature then available, subscribed to this and other
> lists, etc, but nothing made permaculture "click" as a comprehensive systems
> practice and pedagogy the way that PDC did. Frankly, my only problem with
> the course was that so much was packed into 72ish hours ... I easily learned
> more in that one course than I did in four years of college, and I'd love to
> have had more of a chance to explore some of the topics more fully with the
> instructors and fellow students. Having lurked on this list for several
> years, I've seen people's bad experiences with PDCs or poor instructors do
> come up occasionally, but I'm convinced that this is the exception rather
> than the norm.
>
> If the "permaculture movement," for lack of a better term, was more
> centralized, we'd likely have more obvious ways of dealing with poor
> instructors, though I'd never advocate for that. Mollison and Tagari have
> tried to keep some control over pedagogy and qualifications, but it would
> surprise me if even a majority of the permaculture instructors in the US
> were Tagari-certified, and, frankly, I wouldn't necessarily trust that to
> make a whole lot of difference. Essentially what we've been left with is
> word of mouth: "My instructor was great!" or "That PDC was a huge waste of
> money." It would be interesting to think about how, as a community dedicated
> to permaculture, we can better ensure that the most people possible get the
> most value from their PDC.
>
> As a brainstormed example, in the Pacific Northwest / Cascadia (where I
> live) I could envision a regional permaculture body that would evaluate the
> credentials of instructors practicing in the region. One requirement might
> be that new instructors apprentice to a seasoned, respected instructor for
> the duration of one or two 72-hour courses before being "accredited." Of
> course, at this point at least, there would be nothing legally significant
> about such accreditation, but if implemented effectively, prospective
> students might look for "Cascadia Permaculture Guild Certified" on an
> instructor's curriculum vitae. Such regional bodies, ideally with similar
> certification criteria, could exist throughout the world. One side benefit
> of such regional certification bodies might be that it would be more likely
> for students and instructors to belong to the same bioregion, and the 72
> hours of standard PDC could be supplemented with learning on strategies
> specific to a given climate and region (as some already are, of course).
> These thoughts are just off the top of my head, and I'm sure actual
> instructors and folks more involved on regional levels would have better,
> more realistic ideas.
>
> -Ben
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Subject: [permaculture] OT,
 need pointers for creating an intranet (website on my harddrive,
 displaying its contents)  on one of my computers
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I need pointers for creating an intranet (website on my harddrive,
displaying its contents) on one of my computers.

Where can I find the coding/tag information I need to create an html
file I can access with my Firefox browser's "Open file" command that
I can add code to for accessing files and folders that exist on a hard
drive on any of my computers, i.e. I need to build an Intranet on my
home system, eventually on my network. Some of the folders represent
collections of downloaded entire websites (top level filesystem) on
various topics (these are pairs consisting of a base html file and its
associated folder, containing all files listed in the html file). I have
temporarily uploaded some of these pairs to my website as a a test and
they display fine on a linux server, but doing the same on my home
computer running WinXP is another matter...

I just use a simple ascii text file editor to create html files so all I
need is the tag info I can use to make it happen.

Any suggestions?