permaculture

[A Sampson-Kelly <april@permaculturevisions.com>]

There are two essential things that need to be said about the Designers 
Manual.
1. Bill Mollison believes that it is the only required Manual for 
teaching permaculture.  Whether we agree with his view is not not going 
to change his book.
This I know from my brief communications with him over the past decade 
as one of his approved teachers. 
I drew up a matrix that showed I use his book as a reference but write 
all my own teaching material, covering the same topics and more, in 
plain English.
2.  The Designers Manual is still an excellent reference book. but no 
book is definitive so why do we waste time finding fault when there is 
so little time to find solutions, It is urgent that we all get out 
there, do research and reviews and write the next chapters.

April S-Kelly

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permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Permaculture Designers Manual - What the F$%K areyou
>       talking about (fdnokes@hotmail.com)
>    2. Re: Toby's suggested reading (Tripp Tibbetts)
>    3. Bloomington IN Peak Oil Task Force Report (Keith Johnson)
>    4. Re: Bloomington IN Peak Oil Task Force Report (Evan Schoepke)
>    5. Re: suggested reading!? (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>    6. Re: suggested reading!?] (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>    7. Re: Permaculture Designers Manual - What the F$%K areyou
>       talking about (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>    8. two impressive titles... (fdnokes@hotmail.com)
>    9. Permaculture Course in Gainesville, FL (Udan Farm)
>   10. Permaculture Teeshirts (Udan Farm)
>   11. Re: suggested reading!? (Toby Hemenway)
>   12. Re: small attached greenhouses (yarrow@sfo.com)
>   13. Re: small attached greenhouses (Jeff)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:01:54 -0800
> From: <fdnokes@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Permaculture Designers Manual - What the
>         F$%K    areyou talking about
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY136-DS18060424D1D0C5C5F0780B1A30@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>         reply-type=original
>
>
>
> I thought that a 'group think' about what might be in such a manual might be 
> just the ticket to put us back on track as a group.
> For instance, what would be the most vital aspects of permaculture to 
> include?
> What would be the best introductory materials?
> What would be the agenda of an intermediate level primer?  Brainstorm, 
> categorize headings, etc.
> What would be the advanced levels.
> What could go into any manual and what would be more specifically of 
> regional interest?
>
> I thought, perhaps, we might start by just reviewing the literature a bit to 
> see what else we value besides this manual which has been in the limelight.
>
> So, my idea was to 'reconstruct' permaculture as a group, and see what we 
> can compile and what new discussions and controversies might arise...
>
> f
>
>   
> > I would also add to what Scott is saying, if you hate the manual write a 
> > better one and by all means distribute it for free. That would be far more 
> > helpful than attacking the current one.  Like every other field of human 
> > endeavor, one would hope that people would honor the founders for starting 
> > the field, and then work to improve on their work and then pass it on to 
> > the next generation.
> >
> > Larry Saltzman
> >
> >
> >     
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:24:28 -0800 (PST)
> From: Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Toby's suggested reading
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <110091.48161.qm@web59516.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Toby,
> I just read your article "Is Sustainable Agriculture an Oxymoron?" and I have 
> to say, Wow!? I felt it so deeply, but I didn't have the words.? Thank you very much!? 
> I just moved your book to the top of my Amazon wishlist, ahead of Yeomans, J. Russell 
> Smith, and Savory.
> ?
> Tripp
>
>
>
> The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
> -Chinese proverb
> ?
>
> --- On Tue, 11/17/09, Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] suggested reading!?
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 5:37 PM
>
>
> I've put an extensive, annotated reading list of PC-related books at
> http://www.patternliteracy.com/reading.html
>
> Toby
> http://patternliteracy.com
>
>
>
>
>   
> > ???
> >     
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>       
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:29:16 -0500
> From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>
> Subject: [permaculture] Bloomington IN Peak Oil Task Force Report
> To: Permaculture ibiblio <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>,
>         openpermaculture <permaculture@openpermaculture.org>
> Message-ID: <4B033FDC.9000909@mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Peter Bane and I have been proud to contribute to this document. Perhaps 
> you can use it as a template for YOUR Community Transition Plan....
> http://bloomington.in.gov/media/media/application/pdf/6046.pdf
> //Redefining Prosperity: Energy Descent and Community Resilience/ 
> <http://bloomington.in.gov/media/media/application/pdf/6046.pdf>
> /
>
> The specific charge of the Task Force is to acquire and study current 
> and credible data; seek community feedback; coordinate efforts with 
> other governmental agencies; work to educate the community; and, to 
> develop a /Bloomington Peak Oil Task Force Report/ for approval by the 
> Mayor and Common Council outlining strategies the City and community 
> might pursue to mitigate the effect of declining fuel supplies in areas 
> including, but not limited to: transportation, municipal services, 
> energy production and consumption, food security, water and wastewater. 
> The Task Force is required to present its /Report/ to the Mayor and 
> Council for approval. Once the /Report/ is approved, the Task Force will 
> expire unless renewed by resolution.
>
> Members of the Bloomington Peak Oil Task Force include: Peter Bane, Gary 
> Charbonneau, Clay Fuqua, Christine Glaser, Stephanie Kimball, Dave Rollo 
> (Chair) and Greg Travis.
>
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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