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permaculture - Re: [permaculture] Why is permaculture more about selling books, DVDs and training courses?

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  • From: "Robert Waldrop" <bwaldrop@cox.net>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Why is permaculture more about selling books, DVDs and training courses?
  • Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:02:26 -0500

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Travis" <djtravis@hotmail.com>
Perhaps you can provide some elaboration or evidence for this >statement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but permaculture methods are >not widespread in either sustainable agriculture or environmental >conservation. It would be great if they were, but in 2009 it is >difficult to imagine how the environment could be "in a much better >state" because of permaculture.

Permaculture is a design method. Depending on the site, a particular permaculture designer may use a particular suite of strategies and techniques. Sites in the Arizona desert will be different than sites in the coastal NW US. There are concepts that permaculturists use, like stacking functions and zones, but I don't think anyone claims that they are unique to permaculture. When I visit local organic farms, I see all kinds of things in play that a permaculturist would include in a site plan.

Perhaps you could be more specific as to which "permaculture methods" are not in widespread use in sustainable agriculture or environmental conservation.

Robert Waldrop, Oklahoma City



Part of the difficulty is that permaculture ideas are largely speculative and there is a great deal of risk involved
in>actually implementing them on any kind of large scale. Perhaps if permaculture had started out as being more
centralized and democratic (as opposed to decentralized and autocratic a la Mollison), it would have developed the
sort>of infrastructure needed to move beyond demo sites and a handful of NGO projects, but who can say?>


To make such a statement you obviously do not know much about permaculture, and for that matter natural agriculture and
landscaping either.


That's an interesting observation, Mr. Landon. What exactly are you disagreeing with here? Do you disagree that permaculture is still in an experimental phase? Do you disagree that it has not made it past small demonstration sites? Are you claiming that permacutlure methods actually produce a significant amount of the world's food? Or even a measurable fraction of organic food? I realize it's fun to call people names, particularly when one is the moderator, but perhaps you will indulge us with some actual information here.


Anyway, it's easy to see how the initial structure lead the movement there. Most people I've met within the
permaculture movement seem to be perfectly happy with it staying on that track; it is satisfying peoples' needs on
some>level.

Pretty short-sighted and limited view of permaculture. Interesting that you give little credit to Mollison, other than
for the wrong reasons.


I wasn't aware that one had to produce a biography of Mollison when one mentions his name. I'll have to remember that.

- David


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