permaculture

["Robert Waldrop" <bwaldrop@cox.net>]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Travis" <djtravis@hotmail.com>
> Perhaps you can provide some elaboration or 
> evidence for this >statement. Correct me if I'm 
> wrong, but permaculture methods are >not 
> widespread in either sustainable agriculture or 
> environmental >conservation. It would be great if 
> they were, but in 2009 it is >difficult to 
> imagine how the environment could be "in a much 
> better >state" because of permaculture.

Permaculture is a design method.  Depending on the 
site, a particular permaculture designer may use a 
particular suite of strategies and techniques. 
Sites in the Arizona desert will be different than 
sites in the coastal NW US.  There are concepts 
that permaculturists use, like stacking functions 
and zones, but I don't think anyone claims that 
they are unique to permaculture.  When I visit 
local organic farms, I see all kinds of things in 
play that a permaculturist would include in a site 
plan.

Perhaps you could be more specific as to which 
"permaculture methods" are not in widespread use 
in sustainable agriculture or environmental 
conservation.

Robert Waldrop, Oklahoma City



> > Part of the difficulty is that permaculture 
> > ideas are largely speculative and there is a 
> > great deal of risk involved
> in>actually implementing them on any kind of 
> large scale. Perhaps if permaculture had started 
> out as being more
> > centralized and democratic (as opposed to 
> > decentralized and autocratic a la Mollison), it 
> > would have developed the
> sort>of infrastructure needed to move beyond 
> demo sites and a handful of NGO projects, but 
> who can say?>
>
>
> To make such a statement you obviously do not 
> know much about permaculture, and for that 
> matter natural agriculture and
> landscaping either.


That's an interesting observation, Mr. Landon. 
What exactly are you disagreeing with here? Do you 
disagree that permaculture is still in an 
experimental phase? Do you disagree that it has 
not made it past small demonstration sites? Are 
you claiming that permacutlure methods actually 
produce a significant amount of the world's food? 
Or even a measurable fraction of organic food? I 
realize it's fun to call people names, 
particularly when one is the moderator, but 
perhaps you will indulge us with some actual 
information here.


> > Anyway, it's easy to see how the initial 
> > structure lead the movement there. Most people 
> > I've met within the
> > permaculture movement seem to be perfectly happy 
> > with it staying on that track; it is satisfying 
> > peoples' needs on
> some>level.
>
> Pretty short-sighted and limited view of 
> permaculture. Interesting that you give little 
> credit to Mollison, other than
> for the wrong reasons.


I wasn't aware that one had to produce a biography 
of Mollison when one mentions his name. I'll have 
to remember that.

- David


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