Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

permaculture - Re: [permaculture] Why is permaculture more about selling books, DVDs and training courses?

permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: permaculture

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: David Travis <djtravis@hotmail.com>
  • To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Why is permaculture more about selling books, DVDs and training courses?
  • Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:22:49 +0000



>
> David Travis wrote:
>
>>I agree that this is a serious problem. In my experience it is a byproduct
>>of the original process of certification.
>>Permaculture education was originally designed to be a means of certifying
>>design consultants. Even today, the
> regional>groups (in the US at least) seem to be strongly focused on how to
> add new levels of accreditation, mentorship,
> and>certification onto the PDC process; implementation and verification of
> permaculture methods seem to be secondary
>>priorities. The most generic goal of a consultant is to make money using
>>his or her certificate, and it turns out that
>>the easiest and fastest way to do that is to promote oneself as a teacher.
>>In addition to this there are landscapers
>>who have used the certification process to "green" their resumes and
>>explore new territory. Often all of this is
>>combined in the permaculture demo/teaching site. The result is what some
>>people (affectionally!) call a permaculture
>>ponzi scheme of certificates, diplomas, apprenticeships, etc. It costs
>>money, but people like to spend money and they
>>have fun.
>
> Pretty limited and shortsighted view of the permaculture scene. Much
> progress has been/is being made spreading the good
> word. Many lives have been improved and the environment is in a much better
> state, because of the widespread use of
> permaculture methods.


Perhaps you can provide some elaboration or evidence for this statement.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but permaculture methods are not widespread in
either sustainable agriculture or environmental conservation. It would be
great if they were, but in 2009 it is difficult to imagine how the
environment could be "in a much better state" because of permaculture.


>>Part of the difficulty is that permaculture ideas are largely speculative
>>and there is a great deal of risk involved
> in>actually implementing them on any kind of large scale. Perhaps if
> permaculture had started out as being more
>>centralized and democratic (as opposed to decentralized and autocratic a la
>>Mollison), it would have developed the
> sort>of infrastructure needed to move beyond demo sites and a handful of
> NGO projects, but who can say?>
>
>
> To make such a statement you obviously do not know much about permaculture,
> and for that matter natural agriculture and
> landscaping either.


That's an interesting observation, Mr. Landon. What exactly are you
disagreeing with here? Do you disagree that permaculture is still in an
experimental phase? Do you disagree that it has not made it past small
demonstration sites? Are you claiming that permacutlure methods actually
produce a significant amount of the world's food? Or even a measurable
fraction of organic food? I realize it's fun to call people names,
particularly when one is the moderator, but perhaps you will indulge us with
some actual information here.


>>Anyway, it's easy to see how the initial structure lead the movement there.
>>Most people I've met within the
>>permaculture movement seem to be perfectly happy with it staying on that
>>track; it is satisfying peoples' needs on
> some>level.
>
> Pretty short-sighted and limited view of permaculture. Interesting that you
> give little credit to Mollison, other than
> for the wrong reasons.


I wasn't aware that one had to produce a biography of Mollison when one
mentions his name. I'll have to remember that.

- David


_________________________________________________________________
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailĀ®.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009



Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page