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  • From: George Anna Clark <esac@laneta.apc.org>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] A Golden Opportunity
  • Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:25:49 -0600

Hi everybody,

I've worked in what we call "ecological sanitation" for the past about 18 years, although now mostly work on my farm. From my experience as well as what I've learned from others working and researching the use of urine, I'd say it does not have to be diluted.

Urine can burn plants the same as "chemical" fertilizer can, if you apply too much. Also, the plants need water, so you can combine the urine with water, and thus give the plants both of what they need. If you apply too much, but diluted in water, the advantage could be to wash out a good amount of the ammonia before harming the plant, but then you'd be wasting the ammonia, polluting groundwater (all depends on scale).

I generally apply urine with a watering can, and thus do not want to carry around more weight than necessary, so I apply urine straight. Water comes either from the rain or through the irrigation system. I have also applied urine through the irrigation ("por goteo" this means drip, I think) system. It can clog up your emittoers (drippers? little holes where the water comes out) and/or your filters attached to the pump. It's good to run clean water through later, and even uncap the hose to clean those out, otherwise you get formation of struvite... which clogs the emitters.

Ammonia evaporates very easily, so if say you're using a watering can, it's good to dig a small hole by the plant and then cover it after applying. Applying very early, late or on cloudy days also reduces evaporation.

I go by the guideline of 1 liter per square meter during the growing season of annuals - as it acts like "chemical" fertilizer, you generally apply at the same time as you would that (say three times a season for corn). However, if I had all the time in the world, I would apply small amounts at shorter intervals.

As I have a hectare of small citrus trees and also papaya trees, all I have and collect from willing parties goes to those, and to the cornfield. At this point I pretty much apply two liters per application per small tree, about every 3 months. This is a very un-scientific guesstimate of application, so don't base your use on this. The papayas could probably benefit from a lot more.

Also, urine is just a part of the fertilization/soil amendment process. Adding organic matter is more important for me in the long run, but the urine helps a lot during the transition period to organic. (by the way, some organic regulations do permit the use of human urine, others don't, for example European regulations I think don't- for organic labeling)

I think it's been mentioned in the past that most of the nutrients and relatively almost none of the pathogens are found in the urine. The reverse is true for excrement. If you're interested, you can find more info from the World Health Organization's (WHO) guidelines on using human excreta (and wastewater and greywater) in agriculture (from a health perspective) useful... http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/wastewater/gsuweg4/en/index.html Chapter 5 is especially pertinent.

as an interesting aside -for some- for those of us who have urine diverting toilets: it is not uncommon for the urine diverter to be "contaminated" by faecal material when a person has diahrrea - precisely when it'll be full of pathogens).

hope this helps rather than confuse the issue,
george


Bob Waldrop wrote:
Shouldn't urine generally be diluted before being applied to plants?

Bob Waldrop, OKC

----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Johnson" <keithdj@mindspring.com>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] A Golden Opportunity



I might add that the best time to apply this aged material is just
before a rain, especially if you have neighbors in close proximity, due
to the intense and lingering aroma.

kevin akiva wrote:

keith wrote:
(from SCIENCE NEWS, 2007)
"human urine that had been stored for 6
months...[snip] collected from one individual over the
course of a year could fertilize a 90-square-meter
plot, yielding more than 160 cabbages, the team
calculates. The data indicate that a urine-treated
plot would yield 64 kilograms more cabbage than one
fertilized conventionally."
-----------

over the years, i've grown to understand that a
commonly considered sign of madness of howard hughes
was actually an ancient practice of true wealth: a
pee-pee saved and yo'urine the cabbage.



--
Keith Johnson
"Be fruitful and mulch apply."
Permaculture Activist Magazine
PO Box 5516, Bloomington, IN 47407
(812) 335-0383
http://www.permacultureactivist.net
http://www.PermacultureTradingPost.com
Switch to Solar Power the Easy Way
http://www.jointhesolution.com/KeithJ-SunPower
http://www.PowUr.com/KeithJ-SunPower
Blog: http://kjpermaculture.blogspot.com/
also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
http://www.permacultureactivist.net/design/Designconsult.html
also Association for Regenerative Culture
http://www.ARCulture.org
also APPLE-Bloomington (Alliance for a Post-Petroleum Local Economy) It's a small world after oil.
http://www.relocalize.net/groups/applebloomington
also Bloomington Permaculture Guild
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