permaculture

["rafter t. sass" <geophaestus@hotmail.com>]

This is a question about mulching technique for near-surface cultivation of 
potatoes:

We are currently growing potatoes with a fairly conventional no-till 
trench-and-hill technique. We are not mulching, in part because of a carbon 
bottleneck, wanting neither to pay $$$ for straw or seed our beds with hay.

I am growing a test plot (about 18 row feet) under shallow cultivation. No 
trench, seed taters buried 4 inches, and mulching with straw. My question 
about specific mulching technique: how dense? How closely packed between 
plants? Should I lay down and bury side shoots, or gather the plant into a 
central bundle and mulch around it?

If anyone has experience with this, I would greatly appreciate any help!





> From: permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
> Reply-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 53, Issue 46
> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 12:00:27 -0400
>
> Send permaculture mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes to Outsource
>       Presidency! (Kenneth Benway)
>    2. Re: BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes to Outsource
>       Presidency! (Kenneth Benway)
>    3. Re: BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes to Outsource
>       Presidency! (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>    4. Permaculture Activist (John Wages)
>    5. Re: Seedballs (Linda Shewan)
>    6. the night of the living dead (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>    7. Re: Seedballs (jedd)
>    8. Re: Keith Johnson for President! (Keith Johnson)
>    9. [Fwd: [SANET-MG] Growing Nonfood Products in Transgenic
>       Plants a mild proposal] (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>   10. Re: Pollies and permies (Keith Johnson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:11:05 -0400
> From: "Kenneth Benway" <ken@arcadiandesign.org>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress
>         Votes to Outsource Presidency!
> To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <007a01c7b0c7$d195bba0$660aa8d2@arcadian.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250
>
> I just couldn't let this one get by without sharing it with the group. I
> think that we can always us a good laugh, I know I can.
> Ken
>
> Congress Votes to Outsource Presidency
>
> May 24th, 2007: Washington, DC (AP) -- Congress today announced that the
> office of President of the United States of America will be outsourced
> to India as of July 1, 2007.  The move is being made in order to save
> the President's $500,000 yearly salary, and also a record $521 Billion
> in deficit expenditures and related overhead that the office has
> incurred during the last 5 years. "We believe this is a wise financial
> move. The cost savings are huge. " stated Congressman Thomas Reynolds
> (R-WA). "We cannot remain competitive on the world stage with the
> current level of cash outlay." Reynolds noted.
>
> Mr. Bush was informed by e-mail this morning of his termination.
> Preparations for the job move have been underway for some time.
>
> Gurvinder Sing h of Indus Teleservices, Mumbai, India will assume the
> office of President as of July 1, 2007. Mr. Singh was born in the United
> States while his Indian parents were vacationing at Niagara Falls, NY,
> thus making him eligible for the position. He will receive a salary of
> $320 (USD) a month but no health coverage or other benefits.
>
> It is believed that Mr. Singh will be able to handle his job
> responsibilities without a support staff. Due to the time difference
> between the US and India, he will be working primarily at night, when
> few offices of the US Government will be open.  "Working nights will
> allow me to keep my day job at the Dell Computer call center," stated
> Mr. Singh in an exclusive interview. "I am excited about this position.
> I always hoped I would be President." A Congressional spokesperson noted
> that while Mr. Singh may not be fully aware of all the issues involved
> in the office of President, this should not be a problem as President
> Bush had never been familiar with the issues either.
>
> Mr. Singh will rely upon a script tree that will enable him to respond
> effectively to most topics of concern. Using these canned responses, he
> can address common concerns without having to understand the underlying
> issue at all.  "We know these scripting tools work," stated the
> spokesperson.  "President Bush has used them successfully for years,
> with the result that some people actually thought he knew what he was
> talking about."
>
> Bush will receive health coverage, expenses, and salary until his final
> day of employment. Following a two week waiting period, he will be
> eligible for $140 a week unemployment for 13 weeks.  Unfortunately he
> will not be eligible for Medicaid, as his unemployment benefits will
> exceed the allowed limit.  Mr. Bush has been provided with the
> outplacement services of Manpower, Inc. to help him write a resume and
> prepare for his upcoming job transition. According to Manpower, Mr. Bush
> may have difficulties in securing a new position due to a lack of any
> successful work experience during his lifetime.  A Greeter position at
> Wal-Mart was suggested due to Bush's extensive experience at shaking
> hands, as well as his special smile.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth
> Benway
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:10 AM
> To: 'permaculture'
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Design-Bioregional-Energy Policy-Feasible
> Power Solutions.US.Fl
>
>
> The name of the topic has been changed.
>
> Recent input from other topics has indicated that we need to look at
> system design in terms of scale. By that I mean for example, the solar
> array on a home system might be simpler and perhaps stationary, as
> larger power systems might have motorized controls, with parabolic
> reflectors, that track the sun throughout the day, maximizing power
> output.
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth
> Benway
> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:07 AM
> To: 'permaculture'
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Energy-Energy Policy-Bioregional
> Design-Feasible Power Solutions.US.Fl
>
>
> Recently I posted an article titled:
> "Energy Policy and Bioregional Design-The Sustainability of Biofuels"
> I received a large response from this article which for the most part, I
> found insightful and relevant to the article.
>
> To whoever changed the topic name I would suggest that maybe next time
> you consider using a more empowering title like "Feasible Power
> Solutions" which has a more positive intonation than "Infeasible power
> fantasies". This is just a suggestion. In my view our focus should be on
> solutions that work not dwelling on those that don't as the topic name
> implies. Certainly we must support our "solution" proposals with
> examples of why other approaches are flawed, this I have no problem
> with.
>
> As I have mentioned in earlier posts, I am taking on a new permaculture
> design project which is focused on the Florida biogregion at the
> bioregional level. Anything we could do to keep the topics and input
> relating to this specific design would be greatly appreciated. It is
> very time consuming for me to have to jump all over this list to dig up
> and compile information relevant to this project.
>
> Jedd pointed out my use of the word "should" in the context of my
> previous article. Jedd, I agree with you completely, "should" is
> actually a word that I avoid in conversation due to its obvious
> connotations, I thank you for your input and will be more vigilant in
> the future.
> My only request is that, as Jedd has done in the past, we all strive to
> provide these suggestions off list as they tend to distract us from the
> topic.
>
> Below I have pulled relevant content from the "Infeasible power
> fantasies" thread and posted them below in a manner that they relate to
> a particular system configuration or technology.
>
>
> FEASIBLE POWER SOLUTIONS-FLORIDA BIOREGION
>
> Viable Energy System Technologies for the Florida Bioregion
>
> 1. Photo Voltaic Power Systems coupled to the grid via a net meter.
>
> 2. Photo Voltaic Power Systems disconnected from the grid using battery
> systems for energy storage.
>
> 3. Photo Voltaic Power Systems using a combination of net meter and
> batteries
>
> 4. Solar water heating systems that provide both hot water for personal
> use     as well as meeting the heating requirement of a building.
>
> 5. Passive Solar Design methods that reduce the energy demand of a
> building.
>
> 6. Other emerging Solar to Electric conversion technologies.
>
> 7. Other emerging Solar to Hot Liquid conversion technologies.
>
> 8. Geothermal technologies that leverage ground water temperatures with
> respect to stabilizing ambient air temperatures to a desired level.
>
> 9. The use of DC or low voltage AC appliances and other electrical
> devices         to both reduce system costs and in house component
> costs.
>
>         I'm sure that I've missed a few, please feel free to add any
> that you may be aware of.
>
>
> List participants input:
>
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007, Robyn Francis wrote:
> > Solar Voltaics are only one means of solar power generation. Many of
> the
> > new solar thermal systems actually peak at 2am so the issue and some
> store
> > heat to generate energy for several days. The only issue then is
> backup for
> > extended cloudy wet periods.
>
> The above comment begins to discuss key issues that impact system
> design. Thanks Robyn, for your input.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> Jebb wrote:
>
>  "Are these the things that look like a black corrugated iron roof,
>  and that get stupidly hot in even the mildest heat .. ?  I've seen
>  these, and am expect I'll head down that path for my own hot
>  water system.  Do you have some pointers to manufacturer or retail
>  pages of the 2am-peak style systems that you're referring to?
>
>  As you say, storage of energy becomes the big one, and this is
>  why solar will always be a component of a green energy provisioning
>  system .. until room temperature superconductors are invented,
>  that is."
>
> Here Jedd is has brought up several excellent points.
> 1. relates to solar hot water system designs and related storage issues.
>
> 2. relates to sourcing components for a system. This is a need we all
> have and perhaps we might consider developing a new sub topic that
> begins developing a source list for system components by system type.
> 3. relates to emerging technologies such as "room temperature
> superconductors" which I would certainly like to know more about.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
> Jedd wrote:
> "On Sat, 16 Jun 2007, Kenneth Benway wrote:
> > Solar should meet nearly 100% of Florida's energy needs.
>
>  Should is such a useful word, isn't it.
>
>  Anyhoo, how do you propose to supply energy when the
>  sun isn't shining?
>
>  Have you calculated the surface area that would need to be  covered
> with PVC's in order to provide the necessary power?"
>
> To address Jebb's comments above:
> The first is handled. ( perhaps we might consider outlawing the word
> "should" from this list, just kidding!)
> With regard to the second remark the answer is storage batteries.
> With respect to the third comment, We need to find creative ways to
> reduce energy consumption which ultimately would drive the power
> requirement which would determine how much surface area we need for
> photo voltaic. The remaining question will be resolved using simple
> math.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
> Robyn wrote:
>
> "Jedd, you need to think beyond the isolated individual household
> systems. At that scale currently solar voltaics are pretty-much all
> that's on offer. However there's a lot of innovation happening with
> solar thermal systems and most of these operate on a larger scale to
> power from 20 up to 200,000 households. Many of these employ parabolic
> reflectors. Some store heat overnight using various liquids.
>
> Some of these could be installed on flat rooftops in innercity areas and
> industrial estates or even over roofed carparks. Other prototypes have
> been set up on farmland with no disturbance to livestock free-range
> grazing underneath.
>
> You might like to check out
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_energy just to see how a few
> solarthermal power generation systems work. I've seen other
> systems/variations in documentaries and various science & technology
> articles.
>
> There's also the solarthermal power station being built in Western NSW
> with a big glasshouse covering hectares of land. The hot air
> accumulating under the glass feeds convectively through a huge tower in
> the centre driving a turbine. This system also is expected to peak daily
> at 2-3pm.
>
> Robyn,
> Now we are hitting the nail on the head. Scale is a key issue here and
> the system design configuration will change as a function of scale.
> Thanks again for your powerful insights.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> Thanks to all that contributed to the previous topic. If I missed any
> input, I apologize. As I mentioned earlier it can become difficult to
> find these valuable nuggets of pertinent information when searching this
> list.
>
> Regard,
> Ken Benway
> Arcadian Design
> St Petersburg Fl
> www.KenBenway.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/848 - Release Date:
> 6/13/2007 12:50 PM
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/848 - Release Date:
> 6/13/2007 12:50 PM
>
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/848 - Release Date:
> 6/13/2007 12:50 PM
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/848 - Release Date:
> 6/13/2007 12:50 PM
>
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/848 - Release Date:
> 6/13/2007 12:50 PM
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:15:06 -0400
> From: "Kenneth Benway" <ken@arcadiandesign.org>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress
>         Votes to Outsource Presidency!
> To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <008001c7b0c8$615f1ec0$660aa8d2@arcadian.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250
>
> Whoops! I forgot to rip out the irrelevant material from previous topic.
> Sorry. The coffee hasn't kicked in yet.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth
> Benway
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 6:11 AM
> To: 'permaculture'
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes
> to Outsource Presidency!
>
> I just couldn't let this one get by without sharing it with the group. I
> think that we can always us a good laugh, I know I can.
> Ken
>
> Congress Votes to Outsource Presidency
>
> May 24th, 2007: Washington, DC (AP) -- Congress today announced that the
> office of President of the United States of America will be outsourced
> to India as of July 1, 2007.  The move is being made in order to save
> the President's $500,000 yearly salary, and also a record $521 Billion
> in deficit expenditures and related overhead that the office has
> incurred during the last 5 years. "We believe this is a wise financial
> move. The cost savings are huge. " stated Congressman Thomas Reynolds
> (R-WA). "We cannot remain competitive on the world stage with the
> current level of cash outlay." Reynolds noted.
>
> Mr. Bush was informed by e-mail this morning of his termination.
> Preparations for the job move have been underway for some time.
>
> Gurvinder Sing h of Indus Teleservices, Mumbai, India will assume the
> office of President as of July 1, 2007. Mr. Singh was born in the United
> States while his Indian parents were vacationing at Niagara Falls, NY,
> thus making him eligible for the position. He will receive a salary of
> $320 (USD) a month but no health coverage or other benefits.
>
> It is believed that Mr. Singh will be able to handle his job
> responsibilities without a support staff. Due to the time difference
> between the US and India, he will be working primarily at night, when
> few offices of the US Government will be open.  "Working nights will
> allow me to keep my day job at the Dell Computer call center," stated
> Mr. Singh in an exclusive interview. "I am excited about this position.
> I always hoped I would be President." A Congressional spokesperson noted
> that while Mr. Singh may not be fully aware of all the issues involved
> in the office of President, this should not be a problem as President
> Bush had never been familiar with the issues either.
>
> Mr. Singh will rely upon a script tree that will enable him to respond
> effectively to most topics of concern. Using these canned responses, he
> can address common concerns without having to understand the underlying
> issue at all.  "We know these scripting tools work," stated the
> spokesperson.  "President Bush has used them successfully for years,
> with the result that some people actually thought he knew what he was
> talking about."
>
> Bush will receive health coverage, expenses, and salary until his final
> day of employment. Following a two week waiting period, he will be
> eligible for $140 a week unemployment for 13 weeks.  Unfortunately he
> will not be eligible for Medicaid, as his unemployment benefits will
> exceed the allowed limit.  Mr. Bush has been provided with the
> outplacement services of Manpower, Inc. to help him write a resume and
> prepare for his upcoming job transition. According to Manpower, Mr. Bush
> may have difficulties in securing a new position due to a lack of any
> successful work experience during his lifetime.  A Greeter position at
> Wal-Mart was suggested due to Bush's extensive experience at shaking
> hands, as well as his special smile.
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/848 - Release Date:
> 6/13/2007 12:50 PM
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:26:29 -0400
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress
>         Votes to Outsource Presidency!
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <46750C55.3090301@intrex.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Kenneth Benway wrote:
>
> > I just couldn't let this one get by without sharing it with the group. I
> > think that we can always us a good laugh, I know I can.
> > Ken
> >
> > Congress Votes to Outsource Presidency
>
> This crosses the line, it has absolutely nothing to do with permaculture.
> Do we need to pass the hat and pay for therapy for you Ken?
>
> Read my keystrokes, no more political posts. These ladies say it too:
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/images/bush3.jpg
>
> We've been losing a subscriber every few days, unusual for this forum.
> Back to PC. Be Permaculturally Correct.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 05:57:31 -0500
> From: "John Wages" <jwages@earthlink.net>
> Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture Activist
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <410-220076017105731500@earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Issue #66 of the Permaculture Activist (submission deadline:  Sept. 1) is
> about "Animals in Permaculture."  Although we are always open to new ideas,
> a few topics of special interest for this issue follow.  If you would like
> to submit an article, please do so.  It would be good to let us know in
> advance so that we can better plan the layout.  Writer's guidelines are
> found at
> www.permacultureactivist.net/writersguidelines/writersguidelines.htm
>
> Possible topics:
> miniature livestock (i.e., Dexter cattle, pot-bellied pigs), preferably in
> a permaculture setting
> poultry forages:  temperate, as well as tropical
> low-input systems to feed poultry:  earthworms, mealworms
> successful application of ducks for slug control (with specifics)
> draft animals
> appropriate uses of dogs, cats in a permaculture setting
> "wildcrafting" game animals and livestock like guinea fowl, pigeons, quail,
> pheasants
> raising rabbits in colonies (warrens)
> fencing:  specifics on electric net fencing, living fences, etc.
> specifics of successful guilds that incorporate animals
> protecting young plantings from wild animals such as deer
> humane slaughter methods:  does anyone "gas" chickens on a small scale?
> examples of highly integrated systems:
> greenhouse/vermicompost/chickens/ducks
> specific breeds that have advantages in particular permaculture systems
> microlivestock
> animal health:  holistic approaches, medicinal herbs
> beekeeping:  Does anyone keep bees successfully without miticides and
> antibiotics and without experiencing CCD?  How do you do it?
> insects and other low-on-the-food-chain species (freshwater shrimp) as
> human food
>
> John
>
> John Wages
> Guest Editor, Permaculture Activist
> jwages@earthlink.net or editor@permacultureactivist.ne
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 21:36:53 +1000
> From: "Linda Shewan" <linda.shewan@bryn.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Seedballs
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <81E7377A1303BC46A46DD9DDB0FE82CB33DDED@EXCHSV01.bryn.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thanks Dieter,
>
> I have no option but to try the clay covered option as broadcast sowing
> simply feeds the crows/ravens, magpies, sparrows, currawongs, cockatoos
> and countless other winged friends. And a covering of straw/hay has no
> impact except providing light entertainment for the birds...
>
> When we get this project going I will report back on our success rate.
> It's a school project that will hopefully be grant funded so we will be
> recording the results.
>
> Cheers, Linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dieter Brand [mailto:diebrand@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, 16 June 2007 9:05 PM
> To: permaculture
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Seedballs
>
> Linda,
>
>   Last fall and the year before, I did some tests with seedballs in
> parallel
>   with the direct broadcasting of seeds. I found that it either didn't
>   work at all, or that the seedball plots germinated much later than the
>   directly seeded plots.
>
>   Going by the discussions on the Fukuoka farming group, this is
> probably
>   similar to what a lot of people experience, since one usually never
> hears
>   from people again who announce that they are going to try it.
>
>   The problem I found was that the seeds in the seedballs didn't
> germinate
>   with light rain, at a time when the directly broadcast seeds had
> already
>   germinated. When the rain would get stronger, the clay would be washed
>
>   away, and the seeds, I had taken so much trouble to enclose in the
> clay
>   balls, where laying on the ground just as the directly broadcast
> seeds,
>   except that the latter had germinated much sooner. I live in a
> semi-arid
>   region in the South of Portugal, where the climate is very different
> from
>   the humid climate encountered by Fukuoka in Japan. This may account
>   for some of the problems I had.
>
>   If you do give it a try, don't use the mesh-method. I went to great
>   expense to buy 3 differently graded metal meshes and fix them to
>   wooden frames. It was extremely messy and took ages just to
>   pellet a handful of seeds. It is amazing that Fukuoka should have
>   included this method in his book, which he very obviously can't
>   have tested himself.
>
>   For a small-scale test use a large bowl (or tray) with a smooth inner
>   surface, throw in a handful of seeds and about 3 to 5 times that
>   amount of finely pulverized clay (you need to smash dry clay, then
>   pass it through a fine sieve so as to get rid of all stones); then one
>
>   person needs to swing the bowl around (great for your belly muscles),
>   so that the contents will roll along the inner side-surfaces of the
>   bowl (back and forth with the tray), while another persons adds water
>   little by little (best to use a spraying device of some sort). After a
>
>   while the pellets will form. It usually can't be avoided that some
>   pellets contain more than one seed.
>
>   For growing a crop by this method one needs some sort of revolving
>   drum device like a concrete mixer without the inner shovels. But I
>   wouldn't go to the expense of building one before testing if I want
>   to use the seedball method on a regular base.
>
>   Once I get a little more time, I will give it another try since the
>   pelleting of seeds allows for a much more flexible seeding schedule.
>   Right now, I can only use direct broadcasting from 15 Nov. until
>   the end of March because of the ants. I can use mulch to protect
>   the seeds against birds, while rodents and other wee creatures only
>   take a small part, but the ants will get every single seed even under
>   a layer of mulch.
>
>   Dieter Brand
>   Portugal
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:13:39 -0400
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> Subject: [permaculture] the night of the living dead
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <46753383.5050307@intrex.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [SANET-MG] the night of the living dead
> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:46:58 -0400
> From: jcummins <jcummins@UWO.CA>
> Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group 
> <SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>
> To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU
>
> 'Zombie crops' funded by British taxpayers to 'get
> round' GM ban
> By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Editor the independent
> Published: 17 June 2007
> "Zombie" GM crops - so called because farmers will have to pay biotech
> companies to bring seeds back from the dead - are being developed with
> British taxpayers' money.
> The highly controversial development - part of a ?3.4m EU research
> project - is bound to increase concerns about the modified crops and the
> devastating effect they could have on Third World farmers.
> Environmentalists charge that it appears to be an attempt to get round a
> worldwide ban on a GM technology so abhorred that even Monsanto has
> said it will not use it.
> The ban is on the so-called "terminator technology", which was designed
> to modify crops so that they produce only sterile seeds. This would force
> the 1.4 billion poor farmers who traditionally save seeds from one
> year's harvest to sow for the following one instead to buy new ones from
> biotech firms, swelling their profits but increasing poverty and hunger.
> Since the ban was agreed under a UN treaty seven years ago, companies
> and pro-GM countries - including the United States and Britain - have
> pressed to have it overturned, so far without success. But the new
> technology promises to offer companies an even more profitable way of
> achieving dominance.
> Zombie crops would also be engineered to produce sterile seed that could
> be brought back to life with the right treatment - almost certainly with a
> chemical sold by the company that markets the seed. Farmers would
> therefore have to pay out, not for new seeds, but to make the ones they
> saved viable.
> A report published last week by ETC - the Canada-based Action Group on
> Erosion Technology and Concentration that led the campaign against
> terminator technology - calls this "a dream scenario for the Gene Giants".
> It says it will be cheaper for them to sell farmers the chemicals to
> revive saved seeds than to pay the costs of storing and distributing new
> ones. It
> adds: "They will initially keep prices low. But once farmers are on the
> platform, and the competition has been destroyed, the companies can start
> pricing the chemical that restores seed viability as high as they like.
> The key point is that the viability of the crop would be controlled by the
> corporation that sells the seed."
> The three-year EU research programme, called Transcontainer, which
> involves 13 universities and research institutes and is partially funded by
> taxpayers in Britain and other EU countries, says that it is developing
> the technology to try to "reduce significantly" the spread of GM genes to
> conventional and organic crops.
> Such contamination - long denied and downplayed by the industry and its
> supporters - is now accepted to be one of the main obstacles to the
> advance of modified crops.
> ETC's report also says that if the new technology is developed,
> governments and regulators will insist that all GM crops will have to be
> engineered to be "zombies" to try to prevent contamination and in the
> process deliver farmers into complete dependence on the biotech
> companies.
> It adds, however, that no containment strategy is foolproof and that the
> genes will inevitably spread anyway through pollen.
> The Transcontainer project insists that it is "specifically targeted at
> European agriculture and European crops". But it admits that such
> technologies "may become a problem for farmers in developing countries."
> ETC warns that if the technology is commercialised it will "ultimately
> be adopted indiscriminately" everywhere. It concludes: "A scenario in which
> farmers have to pay for a chemical to restore seed viability creates a
> new perpetual monopoly for the seed industry."
> 'Zombie crops' funded by British taxpayers to 'get round' GM ban -
> Inde... http://environment.independent.co.uk/lifestyle/article2666422.ece
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:14:55 +1000
> From: jedd <jedd@progsoc.org>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Seedballs
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <200706172314.55351.jedd@progsoc.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="ansi_x3.4-1968"
>
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Linda Shewan wrote:
> > I have no option but to try the clay covered option as broadcast sowing
> > simply feeds the crows/ravens, magpies, sparrows, currawongs, cockatoos
> > and countless other winged friends. And a covering of straw/hay has no
> > impact except providing light entertainment for the birds...
>
>  Linda,
>
>  Out of curiosity, what types of plants are you trying to get going,
>  and on what scale, with this method?
>
>  I've never used seedballing - it's always seemed a bit too much
>  effort compared to seedling things out, or just broadcasting
>  very opportunistically.  I know it works well in particularly dry
>  regions where you don't want to stick around for the rains, but
>  if you're in Vic (?) I wouldn't have thought that'd be the problem.
>
>  Jedd.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 12:05:34 -0400
> From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Keith Johnson for President!
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <46755BCE.3090608@mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Thanks for the votes :-) ...but I've got 600 emails that arrived while I
> was away teaching a two week course, more projects than I can shake a
> stick at, and I'd rather be in the garden than ANY office. Politicians,
> in general, would be more effective if they were mulched...deeply ;-) .
> Keith
>
> J Kolenovsky wrote:
> > I thought Martin Naylor was better suited for White House Press
> > Secretary.
> >
> > By the way, I meant Keith Johnson for Permaculture President. He could
> > be like an emissary (word?) for Mollison and Holmgren. Pay should be
> > pretty good.
> >
> --
> Keith Johnson
> "Be fruitful and mulch apply."
> Permaculture Activist Magazine
> PO Box 5516, Bloomington, IN 47408
> (812) 335-0383
> http://www.permacultureactivist.net
> Impeachment: It's not just for blowjobs anymore.
> Switch to Solar Power the Easy Way
> http://www.jointhesolution.com/KeithJ-SunPower
> http://www.PowUr.com/KeithJ-SunPower
> Blog: http://kjpermaculture.blogspot.com/
> also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
> http://www.permacultureactivist.net/design/Designconsult.html
> also Association for Regenerative Culture
> also APPLE-Bloomington (Alliance for a Post-Petroleum Local Economy) It's a 
> small world after oil.
> http://www.relocalize.net/groups/applebloomington
> also Bloomington Permaculture Guild
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:21:17 -0400
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> Subject: [permaculture] [Fwd: [SANET-MG] Growing Nonfood Products in
>         Transgenic Plants a mild proposal]
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <4675516D.50201@intrex.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [SANET-MG] Growing Nonfood Products in Transgenic Plants a mild 
> proposal
> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:25:50 -0400
> From: jcummins <jcummins@UWO.CA>
> Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group 
> <SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>
> To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU
>
> An interesting idea is given below. In thinking about the proposal I
> would like to offer the idea that the Province of Alberta in Canada  and
> the State of Washington should be designated places where food crops
> cannot be planted ,only transgenic pharmaceutical and energy crops may
> be grown. In both of these places GM non food crops  have tested so much
> that  the  food crops grown in the areas are in question. However, the
> lesson has been that the transportation corridors for movement of the GM
> crops soon become polluted by the GM crops as has been shown in Japan
> and in Canada. Thus transportation  corridors will have to be set aside
> for the movement of the GM non-food crops. Of course, it would be much
> easier to just not grow such crops.
>
> Published in Crop Sci 47:1255-1262 (2007)
> DOI: 10.2135/cropsci2006.09.0594
>
> Methods for Growing Nonfood Products in Transgenic Plants
> John A. Howarda,* and Elizabeth E. Hoodb
>
> a Applied Biotechnology Institute, Bldg. 36, Cal Poly State Univ., San
> Luis Obispo, CA 93407
> b Arkansas State Univ., P.O. Box 2760, State Univ., AR 72467
>
> The relatively high cost of producing select industrial and
> pharmaceutical products in traditional hosts has led many groups to
> investigate the benefits of plant-based production systems. Transgenic
> plants can offer significant cost advantages for select products, but
> the advantage can be eroded occasionally by the cost of confinement to
> segregate them from commodity crops. The conceptual similarities and
> differences between transgenic plant production systems and other
> transgenic hosts are discussed in regard to regulations and public
> perception. A system of regulated transgenic production is described
> that is based on dedicating an area solely to industrial products. This
> system would take advantage of surrounding crops that are also grown for
> industrial applications to offset the cost of growing the regulated
> transgenic plants. Examples are given that demonstrate the economic
> advantages of the system while concurrently creating a clearer
> distinction between food and nonfood products. This system may also
> increase public confidence, as it is modeled on current systems used to
> produce regulated transgenic products in nonplant hosts.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 13:25:08 -0400
> From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Pollies and permies
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <46756E74.4090504@mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> ditto.
>
> David Riley wrote:
> > Ken, when I see your name now, or anyone referring to the politician 
> that you feel the need to rant on about, or the word POLITICS, I delete the 
> message or skip it. Through your adamant stance you have, in my view, 
> assigned your own name and subject to the no read list.
> --
> Keith Johnson
> "Be fruitful and mulch apply."
> Permaculture Activist Magazine
> PO Box 5516, Bloomington, IN 47408
> (812) 335-0383
> http://www.permacultureactivist.net
> Impeachment: It's not just for blowjobs anymore.
> Switch to Solar Power the Easy Way
> http://www.jointhesolution.com/KeithJ-SunPower
> http://www.PowUr.com/KeithJ-SunPower
> Blog: http://kjpermaculture.blogspot.com/
> also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
> http://www.permacultureactivist.net/design/Designconsult.html
> also Association for Regenerative Culture
> also APPLE-Bloomington (Alliance for a Post-Petroleum Local Economy) It's a 
> small world after oil.
> http://www.relocalize.net/groups/applebloomington
> also Bloomington Permaculture Guild
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>
> End of permaculture Digest, Vol 53, Issue 46
> ********************************************

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